[–] yawz link

My ancestors fled Bulgarian persecution during the Balkan wars that the article talks about. I've always wanted to visit Haskova (Hasköy at the time) where they were from. Hopefully one day.

Thanks for the Netflix links. I'll check them out.

Regarding the bodyguards incident, I think some of them faced charges. Incredible that this could happen even on US soil!


[–] malkia link

With my ancestors it was the opposite. The story, or legend goes, that my family on my grandmother's side were bulgarians (okay not sure, but that's what they claimed) living in Turkey, and they moved to Bulgaria (in the "Strandzha" area) - because one of my grand-grand uncles killed a turkmen who was extorting him every year to give his "yamurluk" (you might know what it is). So he killed him, and they had to escape...

Here is another article which I'm not proud about which Bulgaria did in the last year of the communist regime against the turkish minorities - http://www.dw.com/en/recalling-the-fate-of-bulgarias-turkish...

and then you have this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batak_massacre

It's important to remember these, but not get too politicizied, in a "propaganda" style (as we used to learn it this way in school). I would like more open, here is what we did, here is what was done to us - here is what we should not do, avoid, etc.

My mom & father are claiming Turkey is one of the most friendly countries (they are living in Burgas, Bulgaria), and my mom specifically loves Kapalu Charshi (I'm not prononuncing this correctly - but The Grand Bazar).



[–] malkia link

There is a a new turkish TV show rolling on Netflix - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4320258/ - https://www.netflix.com/title/80127001

It's called Dirilis: Ertugrul (Resurrection: Ertugrul) which is about the father of the Osman, the founder of the Ottoman empire. I'm watching it, ignoring all the overly muslim overtones, praise to God (Allah), songs, etc. It has some good moments, but AFAIK it's based on very little historic facts. But it's no coincidence that the TV show comes at the time Erdogan is the "ruler". The knight templars are showed as very incapable fighters, the Kiya tribe as universally good (with very few bad apples), but apart from that is watchable (was binging on it, while waiting for my wife to catch up on Stranger Things I, so we can watch together II).

But I'm also watching it, just to see how things are portrayed from this side, since I've been told stories completely the other way (I'm bulgarian, so our history, myths & legends are all about ottoman repression, which was even called slavery while I was growing up, but recently the schoolbooks are changing that).

Then few days ago, someone mentioned that this show is in contrast how Islam was portrayed with another Turkish show released just few years before it, (also available on Netflix- https://www.netflix.com/title/80089596 - that's supposed to tell another story, but I guess without Erdogan's propaganda).

I still can't bear, the fact how his bodyguards beat so many people just recently, and nothing really happened after that... Here in the US.


[–] woodandsteel link

>The invariant remains the desire of the West to insure the Turks are down, and that the region is destablized.

That's ridiculous. The West wants to keep the Middle East stable, so that oil flows are guaranteed, to keep the Russians out, and because a chaotic Middle East breeds Islamic terrorists. And so it has taken policies for many decades to ensure this, including supporting Turkey.

However, you are quite right that the West doesn't want a new Ottoman empire that would try to take over Europe, like the old one did.


[–] eternalban link

> The parallels with Turkey’s mercurial president Erdoğan seem obvious.

The invariant remains the desire of the West to insure the Turks are down, and that the region is destablized. The three historic reasons (for the West) remain: Russia, Oil, and Asia trade routes. Given these invariants and historic realities of the region, any sensible wanna-be region native unifier will aim for the same "itihad" (Unity) "-i" (of) Muslims. Is this rocket science? No, it is not.

So to correct the typically myopic view of the region per European (cum West) regarding Turkey, since Western goals and designs for the region have NOT changed in the past 150+ years, so to the reaction from the region's (semi-)indepdentent regimes and/or rulers.

(You may have a clue per above, regarding the very ambitious gambit of the crown prince of the Arabian peninsula minus the "semi-independent" part.)

> cult of personality

Is that like the cult of personality of the Donald the MAGA? Or before that, the Obama the savior?

Why is it that Western press always needs to include a "tyrant", "mercurial", "<insert put down here>" when mentioning the target regions' leaders? Are Western leaders men and women of worth? (Insert chuckle here.)

> the Sultan's nose

It is called 'prestige'. Every state has prestige sensitivities since that is one pillar of maintaining power.

For example, a "foreign agent" news agency, RT, has been pointing out the symbolic 'big nose of the Western governments', and oh boy, they are not amused in the West. See, it is all very "parallel" to what goes on elsewhere.

Nothing to see here, really, except Oil, strategic geography, and containing the maybe-maybenot-European power called Russia.