I find the bit about Chrome interesting, considering I've never had a Chrome installation even without any kind of add-on that was as fast as FF Quantum. Even without any features at all Chrome is much slower and it doesn't even have proper extensions for most things.
On Linux, its still night and day difference in favor of Chrome.
I wish FF performance was as good as it is on Windows.
As much as I want to like Mozilla, even with Quantum, there's pretty much no hardware acceleration at all, missing out on potentially big performance benefits.
As others mentioned, e.g. VDPAU has been available for a long time now and there's no excuse for not taking advantage of GPU acceleration.
Now contrast this to evil Google and Chrome.
For me it's exactly the opposite. While js and render performance might have been worse, scrolling has become more and more choppy with every chrome release while Firefox has absolutely no issues (even without quantum)
There certainly is hardware acceleration in Firefox on Linux, more then likely it has been disabaled because of your configueration/set-up/drivers. To turn it on go into your "about:config" and toggle the entry "layers.acceleration.force-enabled" to "True" and restart. Then Firefox is as fast as Chrome or faster, simple as that. Although it would be nice if there was a dialog telling the user their setup is incorrect/unsupported and giving them the option whtout digging into the config, I believe this is the number one reason people think FF is slower, cause their HW acceleration is disabled and they don't even know it is...
>There certainly is hardware acceleration in Firefox on Linux, more then likely it has been disabaled because of your configueration/set-up/drivers. To turn it on go into your "about:config" and toggle the entry "layers.acceleration.force-enabled" to "True" and restart.
Implying that it wasn't deliberately disabled. HW acceleration on Linux isn't enabled by default, and for good reason. Until those underlying reasons are changed, Linux does have a hardware-acceleration-on-Firefox problem.
Are there any articles that elaborate on what work still needs to be done?
yup.. enabled this option on Linux Mint 17.1, FireFox 51 .. crashed the nouveau driver 10 minutes later.. had to restart.
FF 57 is the first release of a big rewrite, I'm sure it will get VDPAU at some point, but they needed to get the base feature set stable first.
It looked great, up to the point that 70% of my addons were disabled. I rolled back in 5mins :)
I'll give it another chance in a couple of weeks, and hope that there will be a bypass that will force my outdated addons to work.
There won't be a bypass - Fx57 has completely dropped legacy extension support.
This is a good thing, and it's just a shame that so many addons haven't been updated yet.
This isn't quite true. Support for legacy extensions is disabled by default, but can be re-enabled via the `extensions.legacy.enabled` flag in about:config.
Don't expect it to work very well, though, given that a lot of the supporting code for legacy addons was already removed from Gecko 57.
Huh, thanks for mentioning that! I didn't realise there was still a flag for it - serves me right for not doing my research.
Though losing Electrolysis will defeat one of the main benefits of running Firefox 57...
Though you lose multi-process operation, I think....
only on incompatible MP plugins.
however I've just ran nightly and although it says vimfx will work as a legacy plugin it's not working, so the deal's off. I shall not use my mouse!
You can try vimium-ff (FF 57-compatible). There is also Tridactyl  currently in development.
Only in Nightly.
So while I'm still waiting on NoScript to get an update which is actually forthcoming (possibly tomorrow, but within about a week from what I gather), I took a look around to see which of my other add-ons were updated.
Other than a couple that were useful but ultimately not that important, and a couple I can do without until they get updated eventually, I managed to find that most of my Legacy extensions do have updated versions out. Namely, Video DownloadHelper and Greasemonkey, both extensions I thought would die with Firefox 57 out. That said, I wouldn't have known if I hadn't looked at the add-ons site as near as I can tell, while they still say "Legacy" in my Add-ons tab, they do have separate releases on the add-ons site specifically for Firefox 57 which are incompatible with my current browser and I'll probably have to install them again when I do update.* Assuming that is the case, you might find a decent chunk of that 70% already ready and you just have to take some extra steps to get them working again.
Overall, I am optimistic, lots of people have lots of nice things to say about 57 and the extensions situation is not looking nearly the sort of bad I was first expecting. I'm sure I've had more painful wait periods for my extensions going back almost a decade ago as it seems I really am waiting on just one and that one is coming shortly. Even those extensions which are now unsupported actually seem to have decent replacements and I've switched them over already.
* Note, this portion is entirely speculative, refer back to my commentary on waiting till an updated NoScript comes out before I actually install Firefox 57. It's possible they would just update once I do upgrade to 57 rendering my subsequent speculation entirely wrong.
Greasemonkey will be updated from legacy to the compatible one automatically, no user intervention needed. I assume this holds true for all such extensions.
Yes, it is even better if you have a precision touchpad and you disable smooth scrolling. Whole new world of reactivity! It is almost as smooth as edge!
Whoa thanks for the tip! This is so much better!
If it as just as good as chrome, why should I switch? Especially given how good Chrome Dev tools are.
Aside from the privacy / philosophy / openness / counterweight-to-monopolization-of-the-Web angles which Yoric mentioned, you might find we're actually better than Chrome in some areas. Often small things, but I find I prefer the feel of Firefox to Chrome.
- If you do frontend work, our CSS grid inspector is unparalleled https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspecto...
- Firefox has built-in tracking protection (https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer...)
- Powerful add-ons like Tree Style Tab make managing large numbers of tabs much easier (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/)
- Our WebAssembly performance tends to be better
- We should have better resource utilization when you have many tabs open
- You can mute audio on a page clicking the little speaker icon in the tab
If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves, they're built using standard web technologies: HTML/JS, React/Redux, etc. https://github.com/devtools-html/
> - You can mute audio on a page clicking the little speaker icon in the tab
Although I don't know if chrome has this on by default nowadays as I turned it on so long ago.
But mute audio on per tab via speaker icon is available in chrome as well.
* Tab audio muting UI control
If enabled, you can mute/unmute per tab via doing same thing.
Yes, it's been enable as default for a while now. But again firefox is awesome and the 57 version is simple blazing fast
Front end dev here. The main issue I have for now is that whenever I hit CTRL Shift C to open the console, you can clearly see the thing draw itself for nearly one full second. It would be fine if it somehow cached, but if you close it and open again, same delay.
Short of being able to optimize it soon, perhaps you could try buffering and displaying it at once. It would look less clunky and flimsy.
That said I'm giving FF57 a run as my main browser, will keep using Chrome Dev Tools for now.
> - Firefox has built-in tracking protection (https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer...)
Is there a way to selectively unblock certain trackers on a specific page?
I currently have the Tracking Protection set to Always and the block list on Strict. No problems yet, but I know there will be a few sites which won't correctly. Previously I always used Ghostery and there was a nice option to view exactly how many and which trackers were being blocked on each page. When viewing the blocked trackers, they could be selectively unblocked one at a time if required. This was handy to make some embedded video work, without necessary enabling Facebook tracking, which would occur if the whole page was unblocked.
Take a look at the eff's privacy badger add on, which let's you control each script/source on a per-page level
You've switched to multiple processes model, but you don't have "task manager" as Chrome. Do you plan to implement it in the future?
Working on it right now, but no ETA yet.
Ok, thanks. I hope you make it even more informative than the Chrome's one :)
Please, that's one of the most useful troubleshooting tools in Chrome.
about:performance is a somewhat similar substitute for now. You can see stats of the various processes and close or reload tabs.
Yes.. Somewhat. For example can't see how extensions are doing from there.
especially TreeStyleTab is considerably weakend with the new update (like all extensions that now have to fit into less powerful webextension). From my point it is so bad (I lose 4 out of 6 regularly used add-ons) I am actively considering of leaving firefox for the better.
What do you use? Some things are still a bit hacky, but it all comes together for me. I had everything packed, ready to move, but than came the ports :)
To be honest I have not switched yet, but the changes I have seen in TreeStyleTab make me question why I should stay at firefox with that because I can get the features of the new TST in Chrome as well. Also I won't work with Colorful tabs anymore. Further I think I will miss some of the decapriated features in the Zotero update.
(And I will have to find appropiate replacements for Leechblock and FireGesture)
Leechblock is updated. The developer made it into a separate add-on though.
What "TST in Chrome" are you referring to? Tree-Style Tabs are one of the main things that keeps me using Firefox over Chrome. All of the Chrome Tree-style extensions that I have tried are these hacky things that use an external window.
I tend to use Chrome for its devtools, but I'd add WebRTC support to the list of things Firefox excels at
It also has toolbar RSS feed support. I've been using this since when Firefox was in beta (Phoenix) and it's a killer feature for me. I may use Feedly on iOS but desktop/laptop I love having the same feeds right on the toolbar.
Chrome doesn't support RSS feeds in this way because there's no way to advertise with them.
Always watch where the incentives run, Chrome is for Google's best interests, not the web's and not the user's. Always has been and always will be because it's a for-profit organization.
> If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves
I wish I had the time. So I'll have to wait for someone else to add the element DOM properties tab in thr panel that has the style rules and layout. Firebug had it, Chrome has it.
The right click and then Show DOM Properties with the results in the console pane is just painful to use.
Tree-style tabs won't be around much longer.
Tree Style Tab is available on Firefox Quantum and will be with us for a long, long time. Piro, the author, wrote an excellent article about his experience porting TST to a WebExtension: http://piro.sakura.ne.jp/latest/blosxom/mozilla/extension/tr...
Nice extension, but no search for tab option. For now I use Firefox built-in option to search for tab: open new one and start typing the title of tab, I want to find. The drawback: that search is VERY dumb and you have to exactly type the proper name, no fuzzy logic or smth at all.
I got the new Tree Style tabs installed, but I'm still seeing the standard tabs at the top, is there a way to hide those?
I asked this exact question on Stack Overflow earlier today and found that someone else had already also asked it and got an answer.
(basically, hacking some CSS rules by creating a file in your AppData directory, so that the top bar is hidden)
Incidentally, I also discovered that Tree Style Tab's settings page under Firefox has a nice little box where you can configure the CSS it uses, which was nice because I prefer it with a smaller font and less padding.
What uglycoyote commented is the stopgap solution for now, but an API for doing that is in the works, so in a few versions from now, you shouldn't need that more-or-less hack anymore.
Better privacy? Non-profit? More open source? Cheerful community? Pick one or more :)
Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source. Correct on community maybe.
The privacy situation is absolutely different; Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web. For example, Firefox Sync is specifically designed so that we have no knowledge of your browsing data.
In contrast, when you sign into Chrome, "Your experience in other Google products is personalized by including your Chrome history with your Web & App Activity."(https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/185277)
> The privacy situation is absolutely different
> Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web.
But if a substantial portion of Mozilla's funding comes from an organisation that does have a profit motive to monitor and monetise my activity on the web, then surely that's almost as bad (for me as the end user)?
There's a world of difference. For Mozilla to sell out on user's privacy it would mean game over. They simply can't afford to do so, even if they wanted to (which I believe they don't). Google on the other hand? That's their main business, they are an advertising agency. Sure they make nice products too but make no mistake where their profit is coming from.
I donate to Mozilla because they claim to support privacy, and I want them to be less dependent on large donations.
> Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit
Mozilla Corporation is wholly owned by the non-profit.
> both are open source
Not to the same degree, as Chrome != Chromium
> Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source.
Chrome is not open-source. Chromium is, but Chrome is not.
I personally like how it handles hundreds of tabs. No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size, and the compact UI theme is even more compact than Chrome.
Tab containers are useful for having multiple accounts on the same site (Gmail/Github), or isolating work or most secure sites from regular browsing. The containers are more light-weight and more general than Chrome profiles (and they don't depend on having external accounts).
Pinned tabs don't close on Command+W. It's a small thing, but I kept accidentally closing my pinned tabs in Chrome.
Chrome Dev Tools are hard to beat, although Fx is slowly catching up there, too. I don't mind launching Chrome just for web dev.
> No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size
They were! I think they've shrunk, though that might be an optical illusion... And I can't see a simple way to make them bigger (simple as in: not editing the css file).
There is a pref that controls the minimum width now (browser.tabs.tabMinWidth). The default changed from 100px to 76px in Firefox 57. You should be able to tweak this to change the minimum width.
Fantastic. Many many thanks.
A lot of us in the dev community feel that some of the web standards that Chrome is pushing does not reflect the will of the community at large. Chrome is also tied to a company known to have a business interest in data collection, while Firefox is maintained by the community with some funding from a nonprofit.
To support a non-profit, so that they actually have the might to fight for us.
Are you under the assumption that profit is bad?
Honestly, I find it to be (subjectively, I didn't actually measure anything) much faster than Chrome. At least, it feels much snappier on my MacBook Air.
Yeah, if it's just for the good of the internet, openess, and society, who cares to jump to an equal (but better at those regards) engine?
because Google has the worst biz model in the tech industry and is doing harm to the world.
I think Chrome and its DevTools has positive overall effect on the world.
I guess you were not around during the Halloween papers then.
Or the Sco Linux lawsuits.
i was not. def slimy stuff.
How so? That's a pretty bold claim...
Fortunately brave rebels fight against this harm in every way they can :)
The real world is not Star Wars. For all the privacy considerations etc., this comment above reads extremely naive.
Becasue Firefox Dev tools are better ? I feel the Chrome dev tools more hard to use.
Now Google just needs to test their apps like Drive on it... I stopped using Firefox partly because they were so buggy on it.
If this were Microsoft in the 90s, everyone would be calling this anti-competitive behavior. Saying they're just buggy because they're not tested well is putting it much more nicely.
Same, and when you add script control with uMatrix it’s just perfect!
Firefox is pretty similar looking as Chrome now. I liked FF before cause it looked different, now everyone just copies Chrome look.
The dark theme looks much better than Chrome.
Does it? As a matter of fact, it's much more similar to MS Edge. With dark theme it's super close in terms of look. Rectangular, beefy tabs.
I'm not sure what you mean by "beefy". Do you mean the "touch" density with the very large tabs and icons? I'm on "compact" and it's very similar to Chrome except for the right-angled tabs. You can switch between three levels of density:
While there are some similarities in the UI I don't think the photon design system is a chrome ripoff. http://design.firefox.com/photon/welcome.html
I just updated - WOW! What an improvement! Compared startup time and scrolling around some over-monetized sites; Behaves just as well as Chrome. Time for a switch again, I've missed FireFox since I started having Chrome as my default browser back in ~2011
Have a look here  for legacy extensions replacements.
There's no replacement for ScrapBook, a plugin where I have a decade of stored annotated documents (no hyperbole, my oldest files date from 2007). Ever since I discovered that FF57 was going to kill ScrapBook I had to disable Firefox updates so I don't lose access to ~6GB of stored data. It's a mix of past, present, and future writing research.
I know I have access to clumsy workarounds such as copying FF56 to a VM with updates disabled, or to have parallel Firefox installs, but Scrapbook is a daily-use tool for me, and clunky workarounds won't last long.
I'm thinking about reverse-engineering the way ScrapBook stores data so I can write my own migration to something else, but...oof.
Anybody have any suggestions for another plugin/product that offers the same features? Or, dare I dream, one that can import everything from ScrapBook? My searches for the latter have come up dry, but perhaps something obscure exists.
If you're on Windows, grab a copy of Firefox Portable ESR 52: https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox-portable-esr
You can 'install' it anywhere you want (Documents folder, other drive, cloud folder, etc). You can copy your profile in using the steps outlined here: https://portableapps.com/support/firefox_portable#local_prof...
It will remain updated through April 2018 and your profile will stay separate from your installed copy of Firefox. In April, ESR is switching to a newer Quantum version of Firefox, so old extensions will be disabled. If, at that point, there isn't a suitable replacement for ScrapBook, disable updates in your copy of Firefox Portable (if you're using the PortableApps.com Platform to automatically update it, rename your FirefoxPortableESR folder to FirefoxPortableESROld or similar) and only use it for ScrapBook not to go online.
Scrapbook, that takes me back. Haven't used it in a dog's age. But I would be enormously surprised if it did no longer store saved content under your Firefox profile directory, and back when I used it, it just saved the files there and maybe did some link rewriting. Not really a lot of importing necessary to view the content outside the extension - you'd just need to point a browser at its file:// URL.
Not sure how much that helps in terms of retaining the actual functionality, which unless I'm badly mistaken would only be feasible in the WebExtensions API via the external application messaging interface - and you'd need a separate program that would receive those messages and do the mirroring for you, and maybe expose a local HTTP server or some other such horrible hack to let you fetch the content tree for rendering in the browser as a table of contents/tree of bookmark-style links. But at least you might not have to lose what you've got.
> I'm thinking about reverse-engineering the way ScrapBook stores data so I can write my own migration to something else, but...oof.
Looking around on the ScrapBook website reveals that "gomita", the author of the plugin, has a GitHub profile. Sadly without a repository of ScrapBook source code. Still, you could try contacting gomita and ask if they want to put it there to help with reverse engineering it? Or maybe even document how it works.
Is the Web Scrapbook extension compatible with the files it generates? It seems to have a lineage (via Scrapbook X) that descends from ScrapBook.
I can relate to this, tho for me it was TiddlyWiki(-legacy), and UnMHT
you can use the ESR release with the extension AND disabling auto-update, and use -no-remote paramater to run multiple instance FF...
So in your case, you can have two instance, one FF running ScrapBook, the other is new-and-shiny FF... I used this setup daily with multiple FF running at my whim, didn't feel clunky
p/s: ScrapBook sounds awesome, I myself did saves PDF version of website, where it still can be indexed/searched properly
Not to my knowledge, but you can use the LTS version of Firefox. Which if I remember is still compatible with older plugins. It will be a year before Mozilla refreshes with the newer branch.
"Or, dare I dream, one that can import everything from ScrapBook?". Let's hope dreams are answered. You can add me to that probably long list of hopefuls who have huge records of online life in scrapbook for pre-57 Firefox.
At this point it would be best to start exploring other notetaking extensions and programs, like OneNote, Evernote, Zotero, etc. Now is the time to jump ship because from here on in it will get more and more unlikely that any viable bridges will remain compatible.
I did find this add on to convert Scrapbook files with a quick googlin' (no experience with it). Hopefully it helps.
The other option is to look at some of the PDF printing add ons because I remember a few supporting batch operations on scrapbook data. At least they did in 2010-ish.
It’s been a long time since I used ScrapBook. I don’t know about anything that can import from it either.
I wanted to suggest Zotero as a tool to capture information of different kinds. It’s a multi-platform tool that also has “connectors” (extensions) for different browsers.  It may probably not be a complete replacement for ScrapBook.
Looks like a lot of wont be ported, limited functionality and lack of necessary APIs on that list. Doesn't quite give me much confidence in WebExtensions.
Note that the webextension APIs are still under active development. So just because the APIs don't exist yet doesn't mean that they won't ever.
The one extension I'm missing (which has been broken since e10s) is cliget: https://github.com/zaidka/cliget
FYI: Firefox (and other browsers as well I think) already have built-in functionality for generating a cURL command with all the headers and cookies included.
In the dev tools, you can right-click on a request in the "network" tab and click Copy > Copy as cURL.
Sadly, this only works for requests you haven't already done with the dev tools open and it doesn't generate wget commands, but you might get some use out of this while the add-on is being updated.
That list is missing Hide Caption Titlebar Plus https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/hide-caption-...
I searched but failed to find a substitute for that....
That's a super-useful spreadsheet. Most of my extensions have at least alternate versions with some overlap on what I use.
This is also a pretty fantastic list of Firefox plugins in its own right. Thank you!
It needs an entry for RamBack. Before installing RamBack, FF was very frustrating and I was seriously considering chrome
Given the performance and memory usage improvements in FF57, it might not be necessary any more (I note that extension was last updated in 2007)
Tree Style Tabs has been updated to a WebExtension.
Getting a menu bar no longer needs an extension, you can just right-click in the blank areas near the address bar and select "menu bar".
uMatrix can control and spoof Referer sending (I'm unfamiliar with RefControl, so this may not be exactly the same.)
Self Destroying Cookies is a good way to keep cookies under control, though again I'm not familiar with the addon you mentioned.
Self-Destructing Cookies is not a WebExtension, you want Cookie AutoDelete.
Self Destroying Cookies is a WebExtension. There are now a couple of forks.
So, dumb question (maybe), but how do you get tree style tabs to install? I'm running FF 57 but that page says it's incompatible because I'm running FF 51. I checked and the user agent string being sent is:
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20170125 Firefox/51.0;
Stop spoofing your user agent string, install it, then resume spoofing. It should be
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:57.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/57.0
Click "See all versions" and scroll down until you find one that is compatible.
This new release is all about attracting new users to FF from Chrome. It will hurt those of us who actively have been using and living with Firefox.
In time, they say, they will bring back the various APIs for the extensions (although it's still "might" and there's no timeline yet) - so in the meantime, if you liked FF for it's customisation, we just have to suck it up. It's similar to when Ubuntu moved to Unity and attracted all the new users but pissed off all the existing userbase. We should expect a big backlash when all the linux repos get updated and the power users release they have a degraded experience.
Plenty of us have been using and living with Firefox without using one of the deprecated functions of XUL, or using them minimally. For those of us this release has been fantastic, and I'd wager we make up a considerably larger proportion of the userbase.
First off: Ich mag deinen Nutzernamen.
Second: I agree with your point that most of the userbase is most likely not running some weird addons that are hooked into the internals of FF via the old API.
I actually suspect a rather significant portion of the userbase is running at most one of the handful of variants of ad- and/or scriptblocker.
It looks like some distros are going to take a bit of time to get Firefox >52 because of rust dependencies. They're definitely working on it, at least.
> This new release is all about attracting new users to FF from Chrome.
And I'm actually thinking of switching from Firefox to Chrome now.
Tree Style Tabs was the only blocker for me, and I was amazed that it was possible to recreate under the new API.
I use both Firefox and Chrome, but for very different purposes. In Chrome, I have 20-50 tabs spread across two windows. In Firefox, 400+. Tree Style Tabs is necessary for how I use Firefox. My backup plan was staying on an older version, possibly indefinitely.
The APIs are still being expanded. Tree-style tabs was near the top of the list of things they wanted to get support for before the deadline. They also had a bunch of bugs open for various features where devs could discuss use cases for potential APIs, and even "office hours" to work directly with extension devs to help them port their add-ons.
I was also very, very concerned about Tree Style Tabs. It's one of the main differentiators Firefox has for me over Chrome. Very happy it's mostly been preserved. I really only care about having my tabs on the side, not necessarily the nesting.
I personally find the nesting excellent because I am a junkie that opens 90 tabs at a time meandering through the internet and it gives a way to trace my context/history.
You're probably better off not updating yet. I'm unable to open my old session after the 57.0 update.
1283 tabs open in the session that I'm trying to open.
FF56.0 the session opens in around 20 seconds.
FF57.0 I let it try to open the session for 40 minutes and still wasn't finished.
Not sure how it would perform if it would manage to open all the tabs but currently it's pretty much unusable for tab-heavy user.
When starting a new profile and starting session from scratch the browser seems really nice. I'll try nightly at some point and see if it's any better. If not I guess I'll write some tickets for them.
Caveat: Of course your tabs should just open up in FF57.
But seriously, save all tabs as bookmarks. You're surely not using 97% of these tabs anyway.
400 tabs? 400?
I'm sorry if I sound a little condescending, but have you considered using bookmarks instead? I cannot even imagine a workflow where four flippin' hundred active tabs are needed.
It's not one workflow, and there is no scenario in which all 400 tabs are active at once.
Bookmarks take an extra step to save to, an extra step to load from, and do not stay in sync as I browse. Synchronizing a bookmarks folder with 10-20 tab changes would take significant human overhead.
Bookmarks are also slower to review than tabs, if you need to see anything besides the name/url/icon. You would need to load the bookmark into a tab before viewing it. Tabs are already in a tab, though not necessarily loaded.
You can be almost certain that people using hundreds of tabs have considered bookmarks and didn't find a better workflow using them, yes.
(Personally, I believe a good bookmark-like system could solve most reasons I have many tabs. But I neither know what exactly that'd look like nor do I want to spend the time developing it, so tabs it is)
Trees collapse, and typically represent recursive exploration of some particular area, and can act as a kind of task list or reading list. You collapse the tree when you're not actively drilling into that topic.
Combine with a solid session manager (I use Session Manager) to back them up regularly, and they fill in a third space between an open tab and a bookmark: something you only want to visit once, some time in the next few days / weeks, and have no desire to keep around longer than that.
Bookmarks have a really, really bad interface compared to tab trees.
Bookmarks are flat by default. You can make folders, but that takes manually opening the bookmarks manager and placing newly created bookmarks into the appropriate folder. Folders also waste space in the tree; one bookmark can't directly be the parent of another. The web doesn't have folders, it has links.
Bookmarks don't preserve structural context the way tab trees do. For example when using an API documentation site I'll open the site in a window, and from there open classes I need info on in tabs. Methods or related classes go in sub-tabs. I eventually end up with tabs for all the bits of the API I need to reference AND THE STRUCTURE!
Bookmarks are also hidden behind a menu, and are slow to access. Tabs can simply be suspended to save resources, and their trees collapsed.
Etc, etc. Bookmarks have horrible UX compared to tab trees.
I think 640 tabs should be enough for everybody ;)
I just learned this recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_fallacy
Maybe it is just me, but Tree Style Tabs is ridiculously slow on FF57. Takes about 3 seconds between the moment I hit F1 and the moment the TST sidebar is done loading.
The WebEx Tree Style Tabs is markedly inferior to the "Legacy" version. It is simply an integral and indispensable part of my workflow, so much that I can't even fathom browsing without it. I guess I'll stay on 56 for a while.
If you’re going to stay on a version then you’re probably better off on Firefox ESR as the current version will keep on getting security fixes until the middle of next year (by which time hopefully the features you’re missing will have come back).
I doubt it.
What is worse about it in your opinion? I was pleasantly surprised with how well it worked, and in fact the old extension had bugs for me where hiding the tab bar wouldn’t work properly.
No native context menus.
I'm of the other opinion. The legacy one was inferior, a couple bugs here and there, but usable. The new one removed the bugs I was having, and appears to be snappier. I just wish I could move the new tab button from the bottom to the top. Code doesn't look too hard, so I'll probably add a PR myself
What problems do you have with the new version?
- Open a new window: the tabs are not there by default
- You need a css hack to hide the standard bar
- There’s an ugly title thingy at the top of the tab pane
it's uber slow
Same for me, there’s no VimFX or Keysnail equivalent. I’ll just stay on firefox 57-0a1 (that’s an old alpha release, where (strangely) VimFX and the good old Tree Style Tab still work) for a long time.
Sooooo did you make a donation to the author so that they actually have a reason to spend some of their personal time on improving it beyond the initial porting effort? I mean, they have a life they need to live and time they need to allocate too, right? If it's and indispensable add-on, you can probably part with a few bucks to help get it improved to the level you need, rather than the level the author felt was appropriate.
the author of TST is refusing donations AFAIK. He also said a lot of blockages came from Firefox and not from himself. I find it a bit sad that Firefox is not making TST a prime feature of Firefox. Are no Firefox developers using TST? I find that surprising.
> to get a menu bar back for Bookmarks
Is that something other than the "Bookmarks Toolbar" or the "Menu Bar" (which includes a bookmarks drop-down) that I can enable by right-clicking on the empty space in the toolbar?
I'm not sure what he's talking about either. I just upgraded and shockingly my menubar/bookmarks configuration was preserved. It looks a little tight but it's still arranged how I had it.
This might be too much for you, but if it's looking too tight, note that there's also a Density menu at the bottom in the customisation screen that lets you widen the interface (including, presumably, the bars).
I desperately wish FF showed the bookmarks bar on the new tab page like Chrome does. It makes bookmarks infinitely more usable for me.
Hopefully now there will be many developers with an itch they must scratch. Tree Style Tabs was the main blocker for me too.
That itch is perhaps better scratched over at Pale Moon, though i worry that even it is doomed...
To see tree style tabs updated so early is a so important to me.
I've even got the non-technical SO on tree style tabs, they consider the browser broken if the add-on isn't working.
I don't see how to disable yhe existing horizontal tab bar though? Now I have both that and tree style :/
You'll need a custom userChrome.css
/* to hide the native tabs */
/* to hide the sidebar header */
There is no OOB way to do it ATM, you need to modify the userChrome.css. see below for more details.
I found it a good opportunity to reëvaluate which extensions I'm actually using. Most of them I wasn't.
For one reason or another, I reinstall an OS every couple of years or so, and start out with a fresh Firefox instance. I invariably end up with the same 14 or 15 extensions (delta is due to Linux work laptop vs Windows home PC). I use them all, but obviously my reliance on them follows the 80:20 rule.
I had them all synced for several years, surviving several data-losing crashes. I realized how I didn't actually use most of them.
Alright. Is anyone else here using Firefox's master password and found a solution in FF57?
I have been using Master Password+ extension for a very long time, but without it using a master password is hell. I had a lot of other modules, but this one was the reason I was still using firefox.
The annoying password prompt taking focus like popups in IE every time you open the navigator or a website you are not logged in is just crazy. It is annoying enough that I am asking myself if anyone at Mozilla even using Firefox accounts and master passwords.
Does anyone have a nice sync alternative to firefox accounts that include bookmarks and passwords (and it would be even better if I can sync using a git repo)
Sorry, I don't follow. I'm on Nightly (the 58-to-be) and I have Firefox configured to use a master password. It seems to come up once per session -- are you shutting down your browser constantly or something? I'm a little confused as to what specifically you don't like. (The one time it comes up is pretty jarring, I'll agree.)
I don't care about having to enter my password once at home. I care much more about having my navigator at work (which syncs all my personal accounts, including bank & government) being unlocked all day long, and much more when I'm not the only one to have admin access to my machine.
57 hasn't been released long enough for me to tell how it'll go... but when I dismiss the prompt once I don't want it to go modal every time firefox tries to sync or every time I click a link on a page I'm not logged in.
And thankfully Vimperator is getting ported to: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tridactyl-vim...
Very basic functionality already works.
For me it's the Tab Groups add-on which is just irreplaceable! Firefox's "Containers" helps a bit but not that much.
Another Tab Groups user here.
Between Tab Groups and Tab Mix Plus for a multi-line tab bar I have to seriously redesign my workflow.
I could live with Tree Style Tab if it could nest tabs on the horizontal tab bar. I run FF on a portrait 1200x1920 screen and the vertical sidebar takes up too much space.
The TagGroups is so part of my daily basis that I went back to the v56.0
I cannot stress enough how it helps me to switch between contexts. It's one of those things that you just did not know that you needed so much.
What options do we have?
None that I know of.
What helped me the most about Tab Groups was not just the tabs organization, but the face that I could create regular expressions so that a new page would automatically open in its own tab group (and everything else in one 'Default' tab group). That was a killer feature!
Unfortunately, I don't think theres ever going to be a Classic Theme Restorer equivalent that works going forward.
A lot of that stuff is built into the browser, for people who care to look through the customization options and possibly do a tiny bit of about:config tweaking.
Have a look at https://github.com/Aris-t2/CustomCSSforFx , it can do many things, even if it's not a perfect Classic Theme Restorer replacement.
> Hopefully most of the missing extensions will be developed sooner rather than later.
The API is still missing the ability to implement some things, which is preventing developers from supporting the latest Firefox.
I won't upgrade until Keysnail is able to run.
Take a look at Waterfox  fork (at the moment based on Firefox 55).
Just successfully ported my ancient Firefox profile to it and all circa 20 legacy extensions are alive and kicking. Author seems to be willing to port features from Firefox trunk while preserving legacy features .
Moving to WebExtensions (a shared standard for extensions in Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Opera/etc) is good.
Much easier for extension developers (most extensions are unpaid open-source work) to support for multiple browsers.
To track the conversion progress for a particular extension, have a look here: https://arewewebextensionsyet.com/
I'm using Tile Tabs WE now instead of Tile Tabs, since that no longer works. Tile Tabs WE does it's tiling by opening new windows as a workaround, but I feel like that kind of misses the point.
Does anyone know of any alternative?
According to the dev, a version that would work more or less like the original is waiting on https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1318532 which apparently has implementation but has been cockblocked for 3+ months by somebody in the review chain.
Ironically more Servo features could actually make this work better than the XUL version, such as supporting GL/CSS 3 transforms on the <webbrowser> components.
Take a look at Servo's current UI for how this could work.
Of course this doesn't help much with Quantum in its current state.
You don't need a plugin to get the menu bar back, you can just do (tap alt) View->Toolbars->Menu Bar, at least in FF56. I don't know for certain if that option still exists in FF57, but I hope it does.
I've been turning the menubar back on in Firefox for ages now. It's really dumb to hide it IMHO because they never used that space for anything else. It was just useless blank space.
Argh, it dropped one feature that I loved: clicking on current tab does a ctrl tab.
I'm using tree style tabs, but now I have both tabs in a sidebar (where I want it) and conventional tabs along the top. WTF?
If anyone can see how to disable the tab bar at the top, please enlighten me!
Tree Style Tabs is freaking slow since Firefox 57 unfortunately :/
It's worth noting that most legacy extensions still actually work. You just need to enable them.
You can't enable them in the release version of Firefox. You'd have to use Nightly, I believe.
That might be true for this release, but Firefox has committed to moving away from XUL. That means your extensions are guaranteed to break eventually.
They prevent you from using the modern features though.
There is a similar plugin(like Tree style tabs) for Chrome - Tabs Outliner
I was a Firefox zealot before they decided to go in this direction. For me Chrome does all the things FF does but much faster(at the moment).
Looks like it still uses a separate window, which is less than ideal, for me at least.
this plugin is bad. What is Chrome doing seriously :/ I've tried it a decade ago and it was still the same shit.
Hopefully most of the missing extensions will be developed sooner rather than later. I have 15 extensions installed, 14 of which are "Legacy".
The most critical one, Tree Style Tabs, has been converted. That was the key blocker that prevented me from seriously using Chrome. But many more remain; Cookie Controller, RefControl, some kind of Classic Theme Restorer equivalent (to get a menu bar back for Bookmarks, at a minimum), etc.
Years of work to make Firefox the fastest browser.
Countless research and engineering hours.
With actual amazing, noticeable results as soon as you try it.
With a bunch of useful UI features.
"But tabs aren't curved, so fuck these guys! I won't upgrade!"
I didn't have any complaints about speed. Who actually cares about browser speed? But I do care that suddenly, my browser looks completely different, half the functionality I use is missing and there is no way for me to get it back. The fact that this happened as an automatic upgrade without as much as asking me whether or not I want it to happen is not exactly a winning point either.
Edit: It seems that I was too hasty with my "who cares about speed" question. Apparently a lot of people do. I guess I just never found FF that much slower than other browsers. If it takes a second or two longer to load some page it is just not important to me.
>Who actually cares about browser speed?
I do. I can't use a browser that does not feel snappy. I couldn't care less about whether tab edges are round or not.
Millions of people who've switched to Chrome. Including hundreds that have said as much in HN comments over the last 5 years.
> Who actually cares about browser speed?
Pretty much every end user, especially non-tech related end users.
It's kind of a huge deal FYI.
This, from Hacker News, who not one week ago was complaining about "everything being perceptibly slower" and who constantly complains about latency in applications. Pretty sure everyone cares about browser speed.
Yes, sorry we annoyed you with not wanting existing view-layer functionality to be irreversibly broken. Especially given FF's policy of "no, we're not making it easy to revert. Ever."
I lost my entire workflow one day when I did an "emergency upgrade" to FF that broke my addons and wouldn't even let me fix it.
I got some German actors to play it out:
Its hogging the crap out of my CPU (turns fans on) and is noticably slower than chrome on my 2015 MBP. Much respect to the devs at Mozilla, but my user experience hasn't been great thus far.
I think it looks and feels much better than before.
I think the new design is absolutely horrible.
I actually agree with you on a few fronts.
1) by default tabs are now white on a white background, with the active tab only being a slightly darker grey.
2) Everything is much more crammed together (tabs and bookmarks toolbar especially) which makes sense on a small laptop monitor, but on my desktop is just annoying.
3) Dialog boxes to confirm closing of multiple tabs have white text on grey background. (?!)
4) Folder icons in bookmarks toolbar now have this retro black and grey design.
5) Tabs are at the top of the window with no gap, even when not maximized, making window dragging more difficult.
In many ways it feels like a throwback to much older designs.
I strongly disagree, and FF 58 is even better.
I actually like the new design, the one thing that I do still miss is the elastic scrolling at the top/bottom of pages that Safari and Chrome have (and every other Mac app that you can scroll in).
Just doesn't feel like a native Mac app.
I'm a bit annoyed by the dark header bar now, they previously only used that for private windows, now it appears they use it for both.
You can change it to "light" in the prefs :)
Yeah I just tried that and it changes the private window to light as well. I guess it doesn't matter much cause i don't use private much, but it's weird they have removed that distinction now.
Firefox never made that distinction. What you describe is a Chrome beaviour. I think it'd be better if Mozilla copied it.
Yeah, Firefox on desktop has always just had a badge on private windows, with everything else being the same. I think mobile uses different colors, though.
You might be right, I swap between the Firefox and Chrome for home and work stuff and maybe I'm getting things mixed up.
I haven't used Firefox for years, and to me it felt very natural and smooth on OS X when I tried the new version today.
I had a very customized UI for Firefox, and was pretty upset by that going away. But after an afternoon with the dark theme I forgot all about it, and am now vastly happier. Give it a good go! :)
Do you have any specific examples?
When you click on a new link, there is an "explosion" animation on the tab where it turns entirely blue for a second. This happens every time you click a link. I'm finding this extremely distracting. I'm sensitive to this kind of stuff so I always try to disable animations on everything I can.
The top bar is also black-ish now rather than the system grey. This looks particularly bad with the new "blue" highlight indicator. The tabs are all square rather than rounded. It all looks pretty hideous.
FWIW, the tab shows the loading progress in blue, so you're seeing the result of quick page loads. Not arguing your experience, just clarifying what is happening.
You might like the "Light" theme, which I think is available by default. That won't do any rounding for you, however.
You can change the theme to "light" in preferences. If should get rid of the black bar. This has been a common complaint from osx users.
You mean the blue loading indicator?
> Do you have any specific examples?
Labels of background tabs became very transparent. This makes them completely unreadable, as my desktop background is quite dark. So, these tab labels are written with black letters on a dark blue background. So freaking good usability! /s
Switch to the "light" theme in the customization options. It looks better.
I think the look is a great improvement.
Thank you for sharing how to disable the blue flash when opening new tabs. I have the same complaints you do, though I'm running Windows 7.
I also notice now that when I close a tab the screen flashes white. This is very distracting when closing a tab with a dark background.
The loading animations are really distracting and bad. Some better UI to disable them (or ideally just get rid of them by default) is needed.
If you dislike them, you can disable those kinds of animations by toggling `toolkit.cosmeticAnimations.enabled` in `about:config`
There's a big scary warning about making any changes in about:config, so I'm reluctant to do so.
And it's impossible to put the tabs beneath the address bar, or to have actual toolbars.
Decades of UI/UX knowledge, down the drain. Usability is gone.
> Decades of UI/UX knowledge, down the drain. Usability is gone.
Exactly the opposite; this is an evolution that has been taking place over the past decade.
Firefox has had tabs-on-top as the default since Firefox v4.0. Chrome has had tabs-on-top for its entire existence (starting in Sept 2008); Opera had them before Chrome.
The merits can be argued either way, but don't act like this is sudden or arbitrary; it's neither.
Consider that maybe--just maybe--the dev teams at Mozilla, Google, et al. have done some usability studies in the past decade that informed these decisions.
I get that you may prefer tabs below the URL bar, but your claims about the greater state of UX are baseless and absurd.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgtW2Iw-kE posted June 2010
EDIT: Google made a comic for the release of Chrome 1.0 that includes an explanation of their original rationale for putting tabs on top. https://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/big_18.html
De gustibus non est disputandum
The idea that someone else can know what another wants better than the other person is absurd. Your arguments might be valid for defaults, but they must be configurable defaults, because taste is subjective, arbitrary, and, despite what some believe, never in error.
I know what UX I want better than anyone else. Nobody can gainsay my personal taste.
It took a bit of work but I was able to get it pretty close to how I had it before.
I used the light theme and density = compact and enabled the title bar. And then I followed the instructions on this reddit thread to put the tabs on the bottom and the bookmarks above the tabs.
I also added a little CSS to space things out a little.
Thank you for helping me instead of acting like you know better.
> And it's impossible to put the tabs beneath the address bar
I do not understand the significance of having the address bar above tabs from the UX perspective.
If anything, I feel that it should be below so that it can appear as a part of the tab's content - because it's contextual (each tab has it's own "instance" of the address bar)
I've found a way to move the tabs below the address bar here: https://github.com/Isaac-Newt/userChrome-styles
Thank you for helping me.
Tabs on top makes far more UI sense than tabs on bottom.
I wish I could find a full-size screenshot of this, but here:
Green is "page-controlling UI", Magenta is "browser-controlling UI".
Man, am I glad that UI/UX knowledge went down the drain
Toolbars are better than almost any alternative as long as they were honestly designed for completing a task. They got a bad rap because of all the spyware that average users were accumulating.
Was thinking of upgrading...until now.
Can anyone post a screenshot?
Plenty of screenshots at https://mozilla.org/firefox/, but I'd suggest giving it a shot yourself. Lots of work went into cleaning up the UI, adding appropriate, subtle animations, etc. On macOS, the titlebar and sidebars use platform's "vibrancy" effects, etc.
I wish the animations were more subtle!
Try clicking the link..
I just upgraded. It completely changes the chrome of the browser on OSX and it is _absolutely hideous_. There are a lots of unnecessary animations that I find very jarring. I don't know if there's a way to change it back yet.
UPDATE: There is a "Customize Firefox" button which allows modifying the theme, which fixes the colors, but not the shape of the tabs or the animations.
UPDATE: In about:config, you can disable some of the animations with `toolkit.cosmeticAnimations.enabled: false`
UPDATE: You can bring back curved tabs with this: https://github.com/wilfredwee/photon-australis
Interesting. I'm on mac, and I'd say I'm usually pretty sensitive to native widgets, but for whatever reason the toolbar and the menus don't bother me at all. Overall it has a very clean feeling to me. Maybe just because I've gotten so used to browsers being their own little world.
What does drive me crazy is
1. not having bounce scrolling
2. not live-panning the page when using a swipe gesture to go back
Bounce scrolling, especially, I think is table stakes if you want to take the Mac seriously.
Yeah those are good items too. The compact view from elsewhere in this thread was a huge step up. I still feel like the "weight" of the icons is heavy compared to chrome / safari / photos / finder / etc, and I'd rather native menus than the custom non-native ones, but I can live with this.
I have similar remarks. On OSX, the tab and the url bars are too big, they seem out of place.. Also, the black tab bar seems strange to me as I have a black OSX menu bar..
You can make the tab bar and url bar smaller by going to the menu > customize > density > compact.
Thank you so much. That change, combined with the switch to the Light theme, makes Firefox so incredibly better on macOS.
yeah this was such a huge step up, thanks so much. that circled back button was especially driving me nuts so that going away instantly improved my take on this :D
Thanks! By the way, for those who read this, to change the theme is menu > customize > theme.. These things are not easy to find!
And I would add to this, if it is possible, integration with keychain
This was possible until today and FF57 with the "Keychain Services Integration" plugin -- but it can't be ported to WebExtensions.
I will miss it and I'm not sure what to do next.
I have all my passwords in OS X Keychain too (why would you use an external password manager when your OS comes with a perfectly good one). I did not switch from Safari to Firefox until I discovered above addon many years ago, and I won't upgrade to 57 until Mozilla either fixes the SDK so the addon can be ported or (better) integrates into OS X Keychain like a well behaved Mac application should.
Agreed, totally open to give this a try but there is no way I'm porting all my passwords over
I think most people here use more than 1 non-mobile OS?
I assume this is in reference to using the builtin macOS keychain? It syncs just fine to iOS as well if you use iCloud Keychain. That's obviously not possible with Android, but you don't necessarily need a 3rd party password manager if you're only using Apple products.
This to me sounds like something Firefox itself should do, not an extension author...
Problem is: Firefox doesn't.
If only they'd put all the effort spent into trying to imitate macOS into actually building an AppKit version... I guess that's never going to happen due to the cross platform nature of Firefox, but it also means (among other reasons) I'll never use it as my primary browser.
Firefox uses Cocoa/AppKit extensively. It doesn't "imitiate macOS": it actually uses the system APIs throughout.
The one thing it doesn't do is to use native widgets to render the UI of the browser chrome. Using native widgets for Web content in a cross-platform browser isn't a very attractive proposition, because native widgets either can't be composited at all (Windows, GTK+) or require that you delegate your entire graphics stack to the OS-specific compositor for Web content (macOS). Delegating the entire graphics stack to Core Animation would prevent us from making any improvements to it (for example, WebRender). Given that a lot of browser UI (e.g. preferences) is becoming Web content in both Chrome and Firefox, for consistency's sake it seems better to use the same widgets for chrome and content.
I completely understand the reasons, but the result is an application which does not feel and behave like a native macOS application. It is a lot better than all the Electron crap out there for sure, but it's still a major reason why Firefox can't replace Safari for me.
There used to be a MacOS native Mozilla browser  called Camino. It was kind of killed by Safari, though.
 Or is it a "macOS native mozilla browser", these days? everything seems to lose its uppercase.
I think the light theme feels much more 'native' on macOS, especially in Nightly where they've added the same 'vibrancy' effects they use on the standard theme. That said, a few things like the Photon-style menus and the lack of bouncy scrolling make it feel a little out of place.
I'd like it to be able to use certificates in the user's login keychain.
This is so close to great but can a mac snob ask how to get a more consistent UI experience out of firefox? I'm totally happy with how everything behaves inside the web panel but:
1. At a minimum I'd be happy with a toolbar icon set that was a little more in step with OS X design (but willing to hear
if I just have misunderstanding of design :D)
2. As a reach, os-native menus or at least more native-style menus for things like the toolbar menu
It's been fast, faster than Chrome in my experience, for at least a year. Now it's extremely fast.
Blisteringly fast. Great job FF team!
And apparently not all of the performance improvements are even integrated into the browser yet!
I trashtalked Firefox being slow forever, I just tried it out and I must say it's definitely very fast. Great work to the Firefox team.
There's no need for a NoScript replacement. Giorgio Maone (author of NoScript) says NoScript for Firefox 57 will be released today:
One odd deficiency of uMatrix and NoScript I found is that uBlock Origin gives you the ability to block scripts by filename, whereas uMatrix and NoScript can only get as refined as subdomain and scheme. My current setup is some mutant combination of all three, but I would hope that this functionality might converge at some point.
Tried this. It was too complicated and slow enabling every subdomain by hand.
It is a little fiddly to set up at first, certainly.
There are a few tools to make it easier though: if you're dealing with a site that uses a lot of semi-random subdomains (like googlevideo or cloudflare), it's possible to just whitelist the whole domain and get all the subdomains automatically (and then block individual subdomains if you want).
It might be defeating the purpose, but you can also change the "scope" of the changes you make by clicking the blue button in the upper left corner of the panel. You can choose the scope from current domain, current subdomain, or global "*". If you select global, you can, for example, unblock the various youtube/googlevideo related embeds/iframes/xhrs there, and then youtube embeds will work on every site.
The one thing I wish the addon would do is sync my black/whitelists through Firefox Sync so I didn't have to either redo everything on a new computer, or go to the trouble of exporting/importing them.
> sync my black/whitelists through Firefox Sync
It's technically possible, although UX is terrible. Go to uMatrix settings, make sure to "enable cloud storage" option is set in the "settings" tab, then manually upload and download rules in the "my rules" tab.
No automatic sync (won't be implemented) and, no merges at the moment (button's broken).
> No automatic sync
By design. Losing all rules because of sync snafu out of control of uMatrix is the absolute worst case. Importing/merging manually will prevent such disaster.
Well, if it would be incremental (passing changelists of rule additions and deletions rather than state snapshots), then any serious data loss should be very unlikely. And if deletion log records would contain the deleted records and prunned only after a short while, things could be even rolled back.
As I get it, it would require significant changes to the code, though.
Thanks, that's a lot better than what I was doing before.
The granularity is up to each user, none is enforced.
I personally just stick to base domains usually. When a site is broken, allowing one or two 3rd-party base domains is often just enough to fix it.
If you want to go subdomain-granularity, this is your choice -- it's not forced on you. Some even go as far as subdomain/type (the cells in the middle).
I think the bigger problem is that it exposes the grid from the word go.
I myself though i had to enable each sub-set individually until i took a closer look at the behavior when clicking certain ui elements (that as i recall were unlabeled).
Noscript on the other hand only present a list of domains, though one can enable sub-domain granularity in the options (never felt the need).
For those who look for NoScript replacement, uMatrix (from the maker of uBlock Origin) has got you covered (with "A Desperately Needed User’s Guide").
Well, I'm running it on a 7-year-old Mac mini (yeah, no battery, I know, but hold on...), and _idle_ Firefox, without focus, is ticking along at 0.7-1.5% CPU time.
Safari is zero. Dead still. I type this and it moves to 0.3%.
No idea what Firefox is doing...
edit: Also, even without focus, Firefox climbs to 8.9% CPU just by hovering my mouse over it. Safari goes to 0.2%.
Mmm thanks! And looks like there are a few anecdotal reports and bugs around battery drain https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/7a91ss/battery_lif... what a shame if there are issues there - would be a showstopper for my personal usage at least! Hope they haven’t overfocused on speed at the cost of worse battery life.
Well, I guess that depends on the content of whatever you are viewing. I tried the same on my 5-year old rMacBook Pro:
youtube.com: Firefox ~6%, Safari ~0%
news.ycombinator.com: 0%, ~0%
amazon.com: ~2%, ~2%
I'm on one of the latest MacBook Pros and Firefox uses more CPU, RAM, and energy than Safari. I don't mind the extra CPU and RAM usage, but the energy usage needs some work, specially during idle time. On average the energy impact of the new Firefox has been double that of Safari.
Kind of a related question... if I'm a developer and I want my software to be mobile friendly, what should I do and how should I test it?
Are there any reasonable proxies for battery usage that I can run during continuous integration? E.g. measure CPU usage while running tests, measure CPU wakes (somehow?), measure memory bandwidth or IO used? How would I do this?
It’s great that FF is now faster but how’s battery life in this new engine? The reason I stuck with safari and only a year ago moved to chrome was that google finally was able to drastically improve battery life on chrome for Mac... where is FF here (their release page doesn’t mention “battery” at all), does anyone know?
Try Tree-Style Tabs. It totally replaced tab groups for me, it's far more capable.
Thanks, can't hurt to try.
WebExtensions were specifically announced alongside Electrolysis. This is not Mozilla's fault.
When WebExtensions was announced, Electrolysis was already on by default in Developer Edition, and Mozilla planned to begin blacklisting incompatible extensions within 3 months. The author of Tab Groups had just finished rewriting his extensions for Electrolysis. He only gave up 18 months later, partly because of how frustrating Mozilla made the process of getting missing functionality added to WebExtensions.
I guess extension developers didnt expect being forced to WebExtemsions only so soon.
I too am sad that despite the awesome speed, I'm forced to stick with v56 out of necessity for my add-ons.
Tab Groups (which was originally a first-class Mozilla feature called Panorama) absolutely changed my browser workflow, and I can't imagine regressing...
The new APIs won't support replacement any time soon, and the dev has already given up, since they'd already had to run a fundraiser once to add Electrolysis support, just to find that their work would be thrown away in the near future anyways.
And that's just one example... :(
For Firefox 57, the team has been working essentially on improving CPU, GPU and memory usage, as well as concurrency. I know that some people have been looking at energy, but that's not where most efforts were spent.
I hope that our next priority becomes energy. Stay tuned :)
That's great to hear. For a lot of users, Chrome is not the competition, but rather Safari, because Safari is energy efficient and privacy conscious. If Firefox can get as energy efficient, or even just close enough to Safari then it becomes THE clear winner.
None of the Firefox Quantum work has looked at power usage, so don't expect any changes on that front.
This is mentioned in the release notes:
"AMD VP9 hardware video decoder support for improved video playback with lower power consumption"
How many users have AMD laptops?
AMD graphics. And since we were talking about Macs, the answer is "a lot"
And what is the intersection of "Macs", "AMD graphics" and "battery powered"?
Pretty sure it is the empty set.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro Find in Page "AMD"
Well... new renderer and JS engine are faster and use less memory, which means less CPU cycles are used for the same thing and less information is stored in RAM, there are improvements for Windows and Linux hardware acceleration. This all summed-up means reduction of power consumption.
The new style system is faster, but partly due to parallelizing, which doesn't necessarily mean fewer CPU cycles (though _can_ mean more time spent in CPU sleep state).
I don't know why you think 57 uses less memory than 56 for the "renderer and JS engine". I don't think it does. In fact, the data shows that it actually uses a bit more than 56, though this obviously depends on workload.
(Disclaimer: I work on the Firefox rendering engine and have done some work on the JS engine.)
In theory, race to idle might save it. In practice, my fellow web app devs will throw more crap on the web page until things are slow again and only then push back on feature creep from management.
It's really pretty terrible, on Mac at least -- there's a bug about it: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042
which is being tracked for v58.
Note that these kinds of things are typically highly dependent on machine/browser configuration and workload. So that bug's title is overly broad, power consumption is fine for many (most?) people.
It has not been improved and still consumes significantly more power than Safari. It's the major reason why I won't switch.
What is the typical use case for you?
Anyone know how the new FireFox compares on battery-life? Safari crushes Chrome on this front currently, but I'm curious how FireFox compares now.
They published a beta version a month ago: https://blog.lastpass.com/2017/10/lastpass-beta-firefox-57.h...
It's been working fine for me.
This is what's holding me back from changing mostly. Honestly, lastpass is great for me but I almost wish built in browser password managers were better. I used to use Google Chrome's password manager but one time I synced with another computer or phone and everything got erased and there was no undoing it. I lost everything. Maybe syncing is better now but after that sync that thought "hey let's make sure everything is like this brand new device" I hesitate.
High time that passwords management was integrated into the OS, where it belongs. These days its not just sites, but hundreds of apps too that want your passwords, and browser based extensions can't interface with other apps. On the other hand a standalone password manager has at best a flaky interaction with web pages inside a browser window, and often has to be supported by an in-broswer extension, adding to complexity of code and interaction.
We need the OS to store credentials and expose a well-defined, OS independent API for apps/sites to identify themselves securely and request for the user's authentication. This will go a long way towards mitigating exploits like cross-site scripting attacks, phishing, software keyloggers, clipboard sniffers and so on.
I really find it amazing that this is something none of the major OS creators have tackled in a standarised manner.
I use multiple OSes on a daily basis. I think most people do. The right time for OSes to solve this problem was circa 2000. After the mainstreaming of the smartphone in 2007, it was too late.
I really doubt a Microsoft Windows integrated password manager could be conveniently accessed from Android, OSX or Ubuntu.
In fact, I imagine almost every OS vendor would try some form of lock-in.
An application can read from one store and send data to another app to persist into another store.
The one issue I see is that to sync properly such app would need a changelist (with the vector clocks and stuff), and the only thing most credential stores provide is the current state and no history track. An app may implement such list to itself, though, outside of the OS credential storage - without actual credentials, just referring to the record IDs so it's not too sensitive.
Another is, such external app would need to repeatedly access the credential store. If there is no API to detect if the store is locked or not, it may either require to keep it unlocked, or spam user with access prompts or something like that.
Oh, and it would be problematic if the store pins records to the applications and doesn't allow e.g. Chrome to access Firefox passwords and vice versa. You'll need highly privileged access (root) or somehow hook another app and inject yourself into its address space (WinHook, Xposed, etc).
But e.g. Windows Vault <-> KDE or Gnome keyring sync is certainly possible. In theory. Don't know if anyone had ever implemented it in practice, though.
I think the main problem with the inbuilt password managers is they're designed as a convenience mechanism to locally store password copies, not as a complete replacement for user remembered passwords.
At last LastPass has released a new version! (FF Developer Edition has passed beyond the grace period so only allows modern extensions. I've been using Chrome just for lastpass for months!)
As far as your edit is concerned, try searching for "browser.tabs.tabMinWidth" in "about:config".
I know it's available in Beta / Nightly, but I don't know if it got backported to Stable nor will it.
Nice. This works, thanks! :)
I've been using the nightly version for several months, and it doesn't slow down significantly.
Customize > Density (at the bottom) > "Normal" :)
Just upgraded. Definitely feels snappier at first glance, what I'm most curious about however is how much the speed deteriorates the longer I use it (if at all). The older version was definitely pretty bad after a couple of days of uptime.
All in all though. Nice job so far. :)
Edit: I do sorta feel like the tabs are now smaller (when there is a lot of tabs open), any way to make them bigger?
Unfortunately that doesn't disable the "Recommended by Pocket" crap on the New Tab Window. I have Firefox installed on 8 different machines and the option to remove "Recommended by Pocket" in the New Tab Preferences only appears in half of them.
If you're missing the option then you can open about:config and set "browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.feeds.section.topstories" to false to get rid of it. I also blew away the "browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.feeds.section.topstories.options" key that contains all of the configuration crap for pocket.
Unfortunately non of this is or the op's settings are synced in your Profile so you have to change it on all of your machines. :(
Huh, going through the prefs there it looks like they probably have telemetry going on in the new tab page. Where all your history goes.
I miss the Mozilla that actually acted like they cared about privacy.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, can you clarify?
Sure; I'm just complaining about the _existence_ of `browser.newtabpage.activity-stream.feeds.telemetry`. I'm not comfortable having tracking so near user data.
Now that I'm not on a mobile and can actually look at the code, it looks like it's defined at . I must be reading TelemetryFeed.jsm wrong, though, because that says addSession() holds on to the URL (as .page) and createPing() puts it into the ping...
Tracing back through the code, this is only triggered with a URL by the RemotePages watcher, which notifies when the URL matches one of a whitelist. The only whitelisted URLs currently are about:home, about:newtab, and about:tabcrashed.
If you like syncing files you could look into user.js for syncing config settings:
Am I missing something? I don't see how that ties into Firefox Sync to propagate changes to all instances.
* Also, that's very cool regardless.
Not really, just that you need to be crazy enough to write and sync a file instead with e.g. Resilio or Dropbox.
Well I appreciate the link. That's certainly easier than editing properties in about:config.
Just click on the gear on the "New tab" page, you can disable recommended by pocket.
> Just click on the gear
> I have Firefox installed on 8 different machines and the option to remove "Recommended by Pocket" in the New Tab Preferences only appears in half of them.
The gear you're referring to opens the "New Tab Preferences" screen that I was referring to.
If you'd like to disable pocket, here are instructions:
As an alternative to Self-Destructing Cookies, there's Cookie AutoDelete which does work with Quantum. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-autode...
This is the largest disappointment of all. The power of XUL/XPCOM extensions was the only thing really keeping me invested in Mozilla in recent years.
The move to WebExtensions (a shared standard for extensions in Chrome/Firefox/Edge/Opera/etc) is great.
It makes it much easier for extension developers (most of which work for free, on open-source projects) to maintain support for multiple browsers with a shared codebase.
If you want to track the conversion progress for a particular extension, have a look at this site:
Heh. Tab Groups are not even on the list.
Self-Destructing Cookies isn't supported anymore. I just found that out myself a bit earlier and am giving Cookies AutoDelete a shot.
Edit: Forgot to mention but if you check the add-ons site, you should be able to find an updated extension for Video DownloadHelper.
UPDATE: new version of Video DownloadHelper addon for Quantum Firefox was not useful for me: it requires external companion app to write files (which I don't trust and don't want to install). But I found another addon: "Flash and Video Download", which does its job quite well without any assistance from external software.
Thanks, list is much better now:
+ uBlock Origin
+ Cookies AutoDelete
+ Video DownloadHelper
- Save Session
This one surprises me the most, not the fact that DownThemAll itself isn't WebExtensions compatible, since that was known since last year , but that there is a huge gap in download management functionality.
I'm not even asking for all of the functionality present in DownThemAll, I'd just like:
* to be able to queue up multiple downloads without actually starting them, so I can start/resume them once I go AFK for example
* auto-scan all links on the page and be able to filter them to add links to the download queue, e.g. to queue up all files matching a certain filter
* rearrange the queue's order
* persist the queue across browser sessions
* pause any given download and be able to resume it across browser sessions
For what it's worth, thankfully the author of DownThemAll is working on a WebExtensions version , which may also get released on Chrome and other WebExtensions-compatible browsers .
Currently being rewritten.
A subset is currently being rewritten. Which is a surprise because he announced he wanted nothing more to do with Mozilla over this, last year. Wonder what caused the change of heart.
- TreeStyleTab weakened
- Zotero weakened
- mouse gesture addons
I've heard that Vim Vixen is decent, though I haven't used it myself.
From research I also found Vimium-FF and Saka Key. I just dread the whole process of trying each one out (I'll probably just settle for the first or second one I try) and subsequently re-customizing everything. It took me hours to get Vimperator where I wanted it (between the learning curve and modifying settings) and to lose that is like losing my .vimrc file.
- Tab Mix Plus
- Tab Groups
TMP beta is a web extension.
Can you post a link? I have looked at their site and all current builds, including dev say that they are not 57 compatible.
Sorry, I may have heard wrong. I personally just stopped using the addon.
shrug I have yet to find a viable alternative
Firefox Quantum feels very fast, but addon support is disappointing :(
+ uBlock Origin
- Self-Destructing Cookies
- Video DownloadHelper
- Save Session
For those who still need older plugin system, use Firefox ESR for as long as possible or switch now to Pale Moon.
I gave FF57 (Quantum) a try during Beta and it was FAST. I am still using Pale Moon, but installed FF57 to see the improvements, to keep an alternate browser installed and also because Mozilla "Container Tabs" looks very interesting. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Contextual_Identity_Projec...
Using Tree Style Tabs and Container Tabs looks to be AWESOME, once they do a little bit more polish to switching between containers.
At the moment, they haven't implemented hiding of the horizontal tabs as Mozilla haven't officially implemented the feature. It is a work in progress though.
See this workaround to remove tabs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15343940
Now that FF57 is out of beta, I'll give it another go.
FWIW Palemoon (https://www.palemoon.org/releasenotes.shtml) is a fork of Firefox that attempts to maintain a power user environment and negate some of the ridiculous changes Mozilla rolls out. Updated pretty regularly and works more or less as well as vanilla Firefox. I've been using it on Linux Mint and Windows 7-10 for years now.
Could you elaborate on how the second source is about censoring/tracking users?
Creating a single entity who gets to control what is true from its point of view?
Mozilla’s Open Innovation team will work with ["like-minded"] technologists and artists to develop technology that combats misinformation. Mozilla will partner with global media organizations to do this, and also double down on our existing product work in the space, like Pocket, Focus, and Coral.
Firefox is the gatekeeper to the web for many and if Mozilla or this initiative is going to inject their bias in the browser, then it means
that anyone that Mozilla or the Mozilla Information Trust Initiative disagrees with will get censored or their speech altered. No organization that
is run by humans can make the claim that they won't have a bias one way or another. In order to have a free society, we must have the freedom to
express any idea (no matter how stupid they might be). People have become too lazy to look at other sources or challenge what they hear. Ideas need
to be challenged in the open and be able to hold their own weight. We should not need an organization or a browser making those calls.
This will be the first version of Firefox that I won't be using. The final straw with me was the "Studies" integration. I've wanted to stop using Firefox since Pocket and EME was integrated, but I have failed to find anything else that works for me. I can no longer pretend to trust the Mozilla Foundation or the Firefox team, given their track record over the last few years. In our current era, the browser has become a critical piece of software and it is dangerous to trust an organization who wishes to censor  and track users.
 Brendan Eich https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/04/11/did-mozilla-ce...
 Mozilla Information Trust Initiative : https://archive.fo/jcJWg
The toolbar API still lacks the required features to allow multirow. According to bugzilla discussions they might add it somewhere in 2018 :( You can also find contradictory statements from different developers like "this should be handled by addons" vs. "addons should manipulate only the web content not the browser itself" etc. It's a mess so maybe if we users push enough they might understand. See https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1246706
From my point of view they should also provide mouse gestures because the WebExtensions work only after DOM is loaded and not having gestures on internal pages is a huge discomfort and user experience dissonance to put it mildly.
> "addons should manipulate only the web content not the browser itself"
WTF? Who in their right mind can think that the only reason people installed add-ons was to manipulate the web content? UI is the main differentiating factor between browsers, FF strength was the ability to customize UI for user liking.
Absolutely, the one reason I had never left Firefox's side during Chrome's best moments were the few extensions like Bamboo RSS reader and Tab Mix Plus, which I never found good alternatives to and just were indispensable once I tried them.
Firefox 56 still works.
You have to go back to 55 to get legacy extensions to work.
I am typing this this on v56 with all my legacy extensions working?
Without Tab Mix Plus Firefox 57 is not an option for me. Does anyone know of an extension that allows multiple tab rows? Tab Trees and like extensions don't cut it. This is the main reason I never switched to Chrome.
It's too bad FF had to abandon it's massive library of legacy extensions for this upgrade. The myriad of extensions is one of FF's main benefits over other browsers. I've happily accepted lower performance in trade for configuration options. I suppose the most popular extensions will eventually be ported.
Exactly, this is the only reason why I don’t use anything other than Chrome. While I really want to switch to FF. Chrome “add to desktop” does make website almost as like a desktop app and without unnecessary tabbar and stuff.
I wish firefox could do that.
That being said, I don’t use any native app at all other than a terminal emulator. Just terminal + vscode + chrome.
For what it's worth, Firefox used to be able to do this (with a few manipulations). At some point, that feature was killed, because apparently nobody (except me) was using it :/
It's a shame, because I would really like to be able to move my chat clients out of the Firefox UI.
I REALLY want an Electron/NWJS build on top of Firefox. I would scrap chrome altogether both for personal use and for building "desktop" apps.
I'm loving the new FF, my missing feature is being able to open a site as a desktop app. I use chrome to make different icons/windows/apps for gmail, hn, reddit, photos, cloud9, etc. Anyone know if there is a way to have a website shortcut open in its own window and have an icon in the taskbar?
It has never been part of the release - it was part of a test rollout to 1% of German users (not sure if that was of an actual or a beta release).
Well for one thing, it was part of an actual release according to Mozilla's own blog post about it. Second, that still doesn't answer my question about what happened with regards to Cliqz. Is it still being considered? What were the results if the test has concluded? Or are they still testing it in 1% of FF57 downloads to German users? Mozilla has been silent with regards to their Cliqz test which is why I'm asking.
Right, hence the ellipsis. So if you're not downloading German Firefox you probably won't have to worry about it.
I don't have an answer to your other question (maybe someone else will), although since that post says they'll keep us posted and I haven't seen anything, and since it hasn't been that long ago, I don't think too much has come of it yet.
Asked this a week ago in anticipation for the release but got no response. Whatever happened with Cliqz? Is it still a part of the release?
Huh, I can't replicate that in Fedora. Are you using a binary downloaded from Mozilla directly, or from one of the various Debian APT repos? Can you email me with more info (my HN username @mozilla.com), especially what desktop environment you're using, X vs Wayland, etc.
I downloaded the tarball from Mozilla website. I use i3 with X.
I'm happy to provide more information via email.
Is there a repo for FF57 for Stretch? If not, what is the "best" way to get it?
It doesn't seem like there is. mozilla.debian.net says:
>Jessie and Stretch backports of Firefox release and beta are gone because of the requirement of rust to build them, which is not available in Jessie or Stretch. Please update your apt sources to use Firefox ESR instead.
I've downloaded the tarball from the firefox homepage, extracted it, and put it in ~/opt, and symlinked it to ~/bin/firefox, which is on my path first.
I'm using it now. It is really snappy!
There are bugs though. I'm using Debian Stretch. Right click menu doesn't work: it appears for a fraction of a second then disappears; so does the top-bar menu of LastPass plugin.
Android will get Quantum with 58, in approximately 6 weeks time.
But even without Quantum Firefox on Android is way faster than Chrome because it supports ad blocking plugins.
Yeah, I can't wait for FF58 on Android.
TBH FF on Android has felt a little choppy, even with ublock origin enabled. The Chromium-based Firefox Focus feels faster, but too bad it doesn't support extensions. Hopefully FF58 will be the best of both worlds on Android soon.
It feels choppy, so it feels slower, even though it renders pages faster because it's not downloading and rendering ads. A great example of how feel matters.
I agree 100%. I ended up disabling my adblocker on twitter.com just because it was causing so much jank while I was scrolling.
Any idea how to make firefox focus forget google search history. Its kind of pointless to forget regular browsing history but keep search history around. Open for any workarounds because FFF is quite fast when compared with regular FF.
I am curios. Are you using FF Beta on Android or regular FF?
Don't wait, use Nightly! :)
Probably today as well, but it won't see the massive speedup desktop Firefox has seen yet - that should come with one of the next few releases.
The thing that makes Firefox on Android unuseable for me: URLs which should be handled by apps (e.g. youtube) always open in Firefox.
It generally takes them a while. If you're impatient you can try out the beta from play store - it's at b15 which is very close to the release version and it's working good for me on couple devices. Much better than the older versions that's for sure.
Wondering this too
I wonder when the Android version of Firefox will be updated to 57.
Nice to see an update, and performance improvements are noticeable.
If you're missing blank tabs like I was, restore blank tabs at Preferences|When Firefox starts, and set Home Page to `about:blank`.
If you prefer new tabs to be blank as well, that's managed via the gear button on the new tab page, and by deselecting checked options.
Themes are set at Tools|Add-ons|Themes. (For example, if you want a lighter-style theme restored.)
I posted more thoughts here:
Relevant bug report: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1283299
Experimental Nightly build with the Client-Side Decorations that you want enabled: https://github.com/stransky/gecko-dev/tree/titlebar-csd
(This link is taken from comment #64 in that bug report.)
If youre using Fedora: They backported it to 57 and you can activate client side decorations in about:config.
The one feature I wanted that chrome has isn't there in Gnome: no worthless title bar that shows redundant information. I saw screenshots for Gnome with the title bar missing before Quantum was released, so I had my hopes up.
There is an extension to get rid of it. However, you also have to manually install some other garbage too. They provide a debian package, but I'm not using a debian based OS so it's a pain in the ass. I'll stick with Chromium, thanks.
Do you observe this behavior in a completely new Firefox profile?
Judging by the comments, I could be in a minority, but to me this version feels slower.
There is a noticeable lag before first paint of the page. This is specially visible if you have a fast site. I was able to click through links on the site with no lag, now there is a small, but noticeable lag.
Also, where did the "Restore tabs" button go from the homepage?
EDIT: Also, it looks like my fans are running more often, so CPU usage could be higher as well.
Forgetting about the speed for a moment (which is great), I like the direction they are taking the user interface. Recent versions of FireFox had terribly clunky and frustratingly bizarre UI elements, 57 is a huge improvement.
With their recent testing of Cliqz integration I doubt they're really committed a lot to protecting users privacy.
HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15421708
Isn't that turned off when you disable "search suggestions"?
I don't like search suggestions even in Chrome. I find it makes the omnibar less useful.
The omnibar was the game changer for me when Chrome did it. I never have many tabs open as I can recall anything I've visited previously by typing a few words. More often than not what I want is one of the first suggestions.
So to help with this, I turn off search suggestions since they are not relevant to my past browser activity. I also got in the habit of frequently using Private window so that my History has more relevant content. It's great and I'm confident I don't need to bookmark a lot.
user privacy is exactly why I'm excited to finally have a decent mainstream competitor to Chrome. If nothing else this is a nice gate out of the Google ecosystem.
I hope that firefox will continue to protect users privacy as good as possible. I'm thinking of super cookies and the like. Other brother vendors don't seem to be very engaged in this area.
Congratulations to the developers on an important release.
No need to dive into about:config. Just click the gear icon at the top left to disable all stuff.
On the other hand, for some reason they've decided to make the tab previews smaller. Now I have a bunch of small thumbnails on a huge page... And now way to increase their size :(
Have you tried Ctrl-wheel or Ctrl-+ (plus key)?
Huh, it's actually saved, I thought it was a temporary setting. Thanks! :)
Still not perfect, since I'm just zooming in some PNGs. And the new thumbnails are square while most pages that I view are rectangular. But it will do, for now.
I would be happy if I could just get a new tab that responded to addon defined gestures and hotkeys.
Best solution so far seems to be to use the New Tab Override addon and point it to a blank page somewhere online.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean with that, so I can't test it, but have you tried about:blank? So, just give it "about:blank" as URL in New Tab Override.
That's a blank page, as you might have guessed, but it's built into Firefox, so should load a lot faster. Really don't know, though, if Firefox actually treats it like a webpage or not.
Extension defined pages and all special "about:" pages are apparently off limits. You also can't make New Tab Override point to a local file (it can load a local file and present it as a webpage, but that defeats the point as it just becomes an extension defined webpage again).
Just installed it, looks like the update overrode my previously set default of a blank "new tab" page in favour of their overly fancy, ad infested "new tab experience" page. Looks like it's time for another scan of about:config for any other nasties they decided to sneak in there this time.
A developer answered in another post
> The point of parallelization is to harness the full power of the CPU. If you don’t want that try reducing the content process limit near the bottom of general options.
It's not murdering battery because it's "harnessing the full power of the CPU", it's chomping through almost 1% battery a minute on Mac while doing virtually nothing.
Apparently "vibrance" is one of the culprits and switching to the light or dark themes can help a lot. But yes, it's destroying battery compared to Safari for me. Which is a shame, as it's already my default on Windows.
Sounds like you should definitely file a bug.
there is one: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 — it was moved to being tracked for v58.
Has anyone had poor performance on mac? I notice that my fans tend to spin up quite frequently with normal browsing. I didn't really have this issue with chrome.
w00t! I started using Firefox 1.0 after being a Netscape user back in the day. I love Mozilla and all they stand for and I'm so excited that they are releasing Quantum and kicking ass again.
Mobile FF is built on versions far behind the desktop FF. Give it time.
It's more complicated than that. Firefox on Android uses much of the core code that desktop does. But sometimes new features do get enabled on Android a little later. One example is Stylo, the new style engine, which isn't enabled on Android yet.
Wow, no one's talking about mobile? Have they fixed the lagginess and inaccurate click detection that routinely crops up on the Android browser?
I don’t want necessarily want an adblocker built into my web browser. It creates too much centralized risk and power for the kinds of shenanigans pulled by ABP or ghostery, and it would hurt adoption of good add-ons like ublock.
What I DO want to see is something like ublock matrix become a standard feature. Matrix is an incredible add-on that has made the web more useable and more debuggable for me. If it was built-in, the defaults would have to be toned-down or turned off, because it breaks too much of the web, but a simple “privacy mode” toggle to step up restrictions would be welcome in a private browsing window.
Call it “War Mode” or “Paranoid Window” when using a private window with maxed out Matrix.
It's not an adblocker. It's a "content blocking" engine. Basically, there are two pieces to any blocker: the blacklist, and the actual execution (matching against blacklist rules, and probably executing JS to remove it).
Safari's got a native engine for the execution part. And you pass in the blacklist with declarative rules. It's the best of both worlds in that you get competing blacklists, but the actual engine is even faster than JS. And for security like you said, there aren't any shenanigans since it's literally a JSON blacklist and can't contain code.
Firefox includes Tracking Protection, which, as it says on the tin, blocks trackers, not ads. But many, many ads have trackers built in, so it practically also blocks most ads.
This is default-enabled in Private Browsing. To enable it in normal browsing, you can toggle privacy.trackingprotection.enabled in about:config. I think, there's also now a GUI toggle in the settings to do that, I haven't checked yet.
And well, the main-motivation for not default-enabling it is not some Google-conspiracy, it's because they'd take away the income source of many webpage owners who in turn would simply stop testing against Firefox, if not block it completely.
Apple doesn't have to give as much of a fuck about this, as they have basically guaranteed market share with macOS and iOS, and because Chrome uses a fork of their browser engine, so if webdevs test against Chrome, it'll almost certainly also work in Safari.
Thanks for the clarification. I've made the necessary changes.
Regarding engines, Chrome uses Blink, as opposed to WebKit. They were forked a couple years ago.
Feels GREAT! Happy to be using this in addition to Safari. I also added uBlock Origin as an adblocker but would still love if FF eventually included native, declarative content blocking like Safari (probably less likely given how much money they get from Google).
You can reconfigure almost everything back...
For the chrome elements size: Menu -> Customize -> Density -> Compact.
Yeah, saw that. That's not "Compact" though, that's "Cluttered".
The top part of the browser window is now an utter mess. I can live with the new tab style, but the layout with absolutely no vertical spacing/padding and these new "minimalist" icons is just... ugly, and unnecessary at that. I don't think I'm the only person who cares for how things _look_ in addition to how they _work_.
Is there a pre-57 theme for the UI?
The new one is way too minimalist. It also appears to target people with poor sight all chrome elements suddenly became larger.
EDIT - The upgrade also wiped all GreaseMonkey scripts for some reason. Hmm.
EDIT - Downgraded back to 56. Way too many jarring UI changes as well as the AddOn breakage to justify the new snappiness. Mozilla also appears to have pulled the link to the "old releases" page from their main website, so here it is - https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases
Previous discussion about performance improvements can be found here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15686653
Super fast! And I'm so happy that Tree Style Tab is working smoothly.
It's nice, I guess. Doesn't feel any faster, but since I tend to load new links in tabs and then visit them after I've never really noticed page load times anyway.
It feels a lot snappier, but I definitely am not seeing a memory improvement. `about:memory` shows ~230MB for the top one, but task manager shows me at 1.3GB. I only have 13 tabs open. Yesterday this same tab set was running about the same memory. I know my linux computer at home runs lower memory with more tabs (that one hasn't been updated to 57 yet)
But the browser speed feels A LOT smoother.
Update: In the last hour I'm now reading about 1.8GB at 16 tabs. Still acting really fast though.
We track most of our bugs in Bugzilla (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org). Once you've created an account, go to File a Bug, Core, and choose "Audio/Video: Playback" as the Component in the form.
(In general, it's fine to chuck bugs into Firefox -> Untriaged and they'll eventually land in the right place.)
If Bugzilla's a bit of a pain, just let me know and I'll happily file it for you.
Are Quantum bugs in bugzilla or Github?
Bugzilla. There are a few exceptions, but if you misfile a bug to Bugzilla, don't worry, it will be moved to Github during triage.
> Is there a location where I can submit a bug report?
You're probably looking for https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi
There’s already one filed that you can track: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1395158
Anyone else use PocketCasts web player? Chrome is able to play audio at 2.7x speed without distortion while Firefox still has issues.
Is there a location where I can submit a bug report?
Gave it a shot. My complaints on 20m of usage (2015 MBP):
1. Firefox is sitting at 15-20% of my CPU with 2 tabs open. I've never had the fan come on just from browsing tabs on chrome. I opened gmail while typing this and now I'm at about 50% of my CPU and the fan is blaring. Something seems very wrong.
2. The import from other browser (assuming say I already had an old version installed and selected "replace" on mac install) option is VERY hidden behind a bunch of menus. It also didn't import any of my cookies to google, HN, or probably most other passwords in the keychain.
3. Resizing a window feels really sluggish and not snappy, as does tabbing back and forth between tabs. It takes a noticable like 500-800ms to switch to gmail. Most tabs are around 200-400ms. This feels massively slower than chrome thus far
4. The design when typing in the search bar is pretty jarring, filling up a huge amount with white space.
I'll keep trying but if the CPU doesn't chill out this is basically a non-starter for me.
The benchmark Mozilla highlights for this release (2x faster) is Speedometer 2.0. FF57 is 2x faster than FF52, which came out roughly 7 months ago.
In my own personal testing (you can run on your machine in a couple minutes), FF57 is 10% faster than FF56 on that benchmark, and Chrome 60 is 10% faster than FF57.
I know about this, which is a really interesting comparison, but I haven't found any benchmarks.
Does anyone know of benchmarks comparing this to the current version of chrome. The Mozilla team only mentions that it’s faster than previous versions of Firefox.
They also use Google Analytics for telemetry btw.
I wonder why, with Mozilla's pro-web and pro-user focus... why not DuckDuckGo?
IMO, it sucks now.
I like the awesome new speed even on my old Sandy Bridge, but the death of ANY possibilities to add features to the browser UI is not worth it. Really.
Do you know how many bookmarks it can sync ?
I have 30000+ bookmarks, and I use my bookmark structure all the time on all my devices, that's my workflow to write later content on my websites ( my folders = my categories, sort of) and I don't want to change my workflow.
When I was using FF two years ago, it couldn't sync that many bookmarks, and that's the only reason which was keeping me from using FF (besides speed and memory usage, but that tend to vary).
The UX isn't as nice, but you can set up multiple profiles in Firefox. There are/were some extensions to make profile switching easier but I doubt they are compatible with 57.
yeah, there is an extension for it:
This is great but unfortunately you can't have separate extensions with it.
For example you can't have 2 Lastpass extensions
I'm trying it out now. Seems fast and I like the UI. I think there is a feature missing that I require... In chrome I can log into two separate accounts, my work and my personal. They run as practically two separate instances of chrome, so I can log into a separate lastpass account for each. Is this possible with firefox?
There's been this new one, but I have used it very little.
Uh, that one looks nice. It's the first Vimperator-like WebExtension that I've seen that has ex-commands.
Some new stuff is needed, see the last comments in this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1215061 "Better keyboard shortcut support"
Depends on your needs. If it's mostly the shortcuts, Vimium works pretty well (at least for me). If you want the full-blown UI customisation, then I'm afraid extensions are not allowed that anymore due to the associated security risks.
Vent mode on:
That is pathetic. More paternalistic nannying of the user, making their life actively worse in favor of closing off a very limited security hole. If that’s the mindset, wouldn’t it be even safer to not have a browser at all?
Well, yes, but people are going to have browsers. This does make it easier for me to install Firefox for my mom and not have her call me about "not being able to visit websites anymore" and me having to figure out something removed her address bar or something.
I mean, obviously there's pros and cons, but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
> If you want the full-blown UI customisation, then I'm afraid extensions are not allowed that anymore due to the associated security risks.
That's total BS. It's my software running on my computer. I get to decide what I consider a security risk, not Mozilla.
This "user is an idiot" mentality permeates their development culture. As another example, Mozilla would rather you don't get to access a site at all if it's misconfigured a certain way, rather than putting in any kind of override.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435013 (Ten years old, fixes proposed, questions unanswered. Note the status.)
If I sound upset, it's because this is personally offensive (not to mention infuriating) to me, and many good-faith questions have gone ignored.
Yes, but at the same time, I'm installing software on my mom's computer, and unfortunately, she's not a good judge of what is a security risk. I'd trust Mozilla with that more.
As I said elsewhere, it is frustrating as well. But it's not like there aren't upsides to it as well, that just might not apply to us.
Has Vimium been updated to work under the new extension system?
Vimium wasn't even available for Firefox before (it was a Chrome extension), but it is now.
VimFx hasn't, but Vimium has replaced it for me.
I am using saka key, it works pretty well for basic stuff.
You could try the ff port of vimium, but it's not vimperator.
Is there a good Vimperator replacement for the new webextension addon system?
It's fast. Fast!
It seems i also got Ebay as an additional search engine. Oh well.. deleted it. :)
Would love to see an Electron-compatible runtime coming from Firefox (using the new engine), using less memory etc.
Looks like positron used to do this but is now dead :( https://github.com/mozilla/positron
The omnibar is less convenient than Google Chrome: it appears that pressing DELETE does not actually remove a search suggestion from History. Instead it seems to be ranked down. This is not useful, there should be a way to completely remove a suggestion (unless it is currently a bookmark).
In Google Chrome I navigate with the omnibar so much, it was the game changer for me when Chrome was new. The ability to quickly recall any page I visited before. Coupled with the ability to finetune these suggestions by removing unwanted entries.
I have to say it's been a while since I have been impressed with a firefox official release, I have been using nightly for a couple of weeks now.
Another thing to note, and maybe most people don't instinctively realize this, but Chrome should get a lot of kudos for bringing both browsers and the web forward in such a short time. Let's not forget - the clusterfuck both Firefox and IE were before chrome came to the scene. A lot of the implements that makes Firefox awesome now came from chrome.
Chrome played just as big of a role as FF did to bring IE out of the gutter.
I haven't used IE (or whatever it's current incarnation is called) for a long time as a daily driver - spend some time about 6 months ago - wasn't impressed, but still better than what it was before.
Thanks, Chrome team.
Having Reader View available out of the box is huge for me. This is one of the reasons I prefer Safari when I'm on MacOS. But I use Ubuntu most of the time, so I'm switching back to Firefox as my default browser. So far, it's been great.
To chime in with some of the others, I decided to try out Firefox again  when the FF57 beta/nightly/whatever was first released and am very happy that I did!
Looks like that was ~48 days ago and I think I've opened up Chromium maybe two or three times since then.
(WRT extensions, LastPass was the only thing I "missed" (we have Enterprise for $work) although I normally use the CLI utility instead anyways. They came out with a beta a few weeks ago and it was actually working great until about two days ago when it suddenly broke for me. The other extensions I use -- uBlock Origin, Vimium -- have been working just fine.)
Quick performance comparison, FF 57 with only a single tab (upwork.com) and Chrome latest with 30+ tabs:
FF 57: https://i.imgur.com/kaQl5gN.gifv
FF 57 is much slower. Maybe a very specific use case but confirms my experience so far that FF is much slower than Chrome on basically everything.
I've been using Firefox nightly after Quantum changes got in and I love it. I use it as my default browser.
Now that the changes are mainstream I'll be switching to version 57.
But I can't stop using Chrome yet. We write a lot of functional tests and Chrome is better at it.
It's got libraries like Puppeteer, good Webdriver support and a headless mode that just works. I can't put my finger on it, but it's difficult to run automated tests with Firefox.
I hope Firefox gets something like Chrome's DevTools protocol.
Firefox 57 + Duckduckgo = Winning team!
This post made me switch from Safari to Firefox. (I abandoned Chrome several years ago. Don't like Google's philosophy.) Hadn't really been using FF in ages. It has made tremendous improvements. Super fast startup and navigation.
Also installed a plugin named Vim Vixen. Now I am able to navigate and use the browser almost without touching the mouse.
Thank you Mozilla. Keep up the good work!
It’s blazing fast.. Hoping to see more successful Rust based applications.
Is it possible in Firefox to remember the "pinned" state of a tab matching a bookmark when it is closed?
It' be awesome if some of my bookmarks always open in a pinned state. Examples: rain.today (white noise). ... But I don't want them to be there everytime I open the browser, hence to remember the pinned preference with bookmarks.
Less than a second here. Yes, I can see it paint, but it's nowhere near 5 seconds. And I'm on a base model Thinkpad T440, hardly a speed machine these days.
Did you wait until the box was fully populated?
Which site did you test it on? All of the developer tools (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Edge) will take awhile to load a massive DOM tree with many thousands of nodes.
It's supposed to be faster, but when I open developer-tools and click on "Inspector", it takes almost 5 seconds to paint.
EDIT: Okay, tested again; it depends heavily on the website you do this on.
As long as you use different profiles, and start each of them up with the profile indicated as runtime option: yes. (particularly useful when you need to test some website against a main, beta, and nightly version of a browser simultaneously)
I believe you can on every platform, but make sure to use a different profile (-P option, off the top of my head), as they're not compatible between releases.
The developer of Waterfox has promised to continue supporting "legacy" add-ons, so that's an option you can explore.
Mind though, that this effort will almost certainly die off after June 26, 2018. That's the EOL date of Firefox 52 ESR, meaning the actual end of Mozilla supporting legacy extensions.
This sort of cynic statement is based on this legacy extension system having been a major maintenance burden for Mozilla, so now one developer or even a small team trying to take that over, I can hardly imagine to work out.
You can if you run them in different profiles. Use firefox -P to launch the profile manager and create a new profile. You can sign both profiles in to the same Firefox sync account if you want to share history etc between them.
Can one run the new version alongside a previous version?
I need to access occasionally extensions unsupported in the new version: namely Scrapbook and the extension that provides maff file support.
Try starting Firefox in safe mode in case that's some broken extension:
No extensions installed. Literally just downloaded firefox.
Sibling comment recommended opening a bug. I concur: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/enter_bug.cgi?format=guided#h=b...
sounds like you should file a bug about that so they can be aware of that problem and look into it.
I'm on windows 7, the new version seems to keep spawning a process which grinds my machine to a halt.
I've had to open task manager twice now to kill it. Only downloaded it 10 minutes ago.
Right, because some of the relevant standards got changed slightly in some of the edge cases ACID3 tests (e.g. to deal with shadow DOM), and browsers got updated to follow the standards, but the maintainer of ACID3 doesn't want to change the test. See https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2017Jul/000...
It scores 97/100 in ACID3. Not that it matters but stil...
Does anyone know a replacement for Focus Last Selected Tab functionality? Meaning, when closing a tab, it focuses the previously selected tab before that one.
For fans of using Firefox without installing it into Windows (or just trying it out temporarily without leaving things behind), the portable version is also available for your cloud folder, portable drive, or local drive: https://portableapps.com/apps/internet/firefox_portable
Very nice release, congrats!
Are there any plans to improve tab search option in AwsomeBar? For example now you have to really precisely type the name of the tab to switch to it. You can add some kind of fuzzy search logic to find the tab on relatively relevant typing. With >10 tabs open that would be really useful.
Same issue here. Disabling smooth scrolling fixed it.
Had some lag after install and had to disable smooth scrolling in General Preferences to sort it. Not sure if I was somehow hallucinating but it's smooth now. OSX.
I've just updated and it seems really nice so far. Best of all, the "Tree Style Tab" extension works again, and it's glorious.
Sorry about that inconvenience. The current plan is to revisit WebSocket debugging in Q1 next year, per https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=885508.
Part of the delay is the complete rewrite that most of the DevTools are undergoing. As we move from legacy, in-house solutions (XUL) to standard web technology (HTML/JS, React/Redux, etc.) as part of the "devtools.html" project: https://github.com/devtools-html/
I see the tracking issue has been in bugzilla for years. I get that it is a tricky map from the raw packets to these frames, but relying on a 3rd party extension to the point of deprioritizing work on this is a pretty iffy call - I wasn't excited about trusting an extension at all; that the extension seems to have been broken in 57 entirely (foreseeably too) just feels meh.
I guess I'm part of a minority of people who does a lot of websockets work? Well, that's guaranteed to be true - a random feature deep inside the devtools is probably a deal-breaker for like four people.
Very sorry about that. The third party extension was developed by a core DevTools engineer, just not merged upstream. We'll get there. :)
Is there some super-compelling reason why FF doesn't let you inspect websocket frames? I was taking FF for a drive yesterday, based on the earlier thread, and it was nice until I started debugging my web app.
I'm not interested in trusting a third party extension with all my network data either, so the plug-in to do this isn't an option. It's weird, but this really is a blocker for me for general use.
I updated to the beta last night before doing a bit of homework. While working in Google docs, I noticed that if you right click and try to "paste without formatting", you get this popup: https://cl.ly/3O0n2e3y1p1e
Has anyone experienced that in a browser other than Firefox?
When I'm trying to resize the "Welcome to Firefox" window on a Retina iMac on 10.12.6, the wavy background animation completely freezes. Firefox then takes more than a second to update the window content and restart the animation.
That particular welcome screen seems like a really poor choice to demonstrate the supposedly much-improved rendering engine on my machine.
One downside is that there isn't a replacement for the tab wheel scroll add-on. Very annoying.
Woah it's super fast.
Anyone knows if the other major browsers are working on a similar approach to increase performance?
I would really like a Debian repository like the one used for Chrome, providing working rolling releases.
I also got the firefox for android after seeing the sync feature. However the tabs don't sync by default and I haven't seen any guide on how to use this feature. I'd appreciate any pointer in the right direction.
On the desktop (in Firefox 57), you can find your tabs under Library->Synced Tabs.
On the Android version, they appear on the homepage->History->Synced Devices.
Mind that they don't sync immediately. There's an interval for syncing. You can lower this interval in about:config by editing one of services.sync.scheduler.*, also possibly services.sync.syncInterval, but I don't know for sure what each individual one does. Also, you can tell it to do a sync right away, on the desktop version with Alt+t, then s; on the Android version by going into the settings, then tapping on "Firefox Account" at the top and then "Synchronize now".
Those can be disabled from the new tab page itself.
Ah, better. It was not at all obvious how to get rid of it.
Hamburger -> General -> Home -> Top Sites
Then it can be toggled off. Whew!
EDIT: It's still not nice to have this sort of thing come up by surprise.
That pissed me off too. When did Mozilla become an advertiser?
They own Pocket. This is just their own content recommendation engine. No payments involved. An attempt to make the web rely less on search engines.
I don't see your point. They are still advertising to me
Just updated it on Android... and I wish I hadn't.
The very first thing I was greeted with on the "top sites" page was a bunch of "Recommended by Pocket" links, and no way to disable that.
I can't find anything in about:config to disable this either. How about NO, goddammit?
Shame on you, Mozilla.
Ah, it works for github.com but not for google. Seems like an issue with the google login page.
Whats the status of u2f in firefox 57? Trying to login to gmail I get "Something went wrong. Remove your Security Key and try again." I enabled 'security.webauth.u2f' and 'security.webauth.webauthn' but that didn't seem to help :(
I'm still seeing version 56 on Google Play, is Android version 57 not available yet?
A question I have- I've been using Firefox Developer Edition and it says "57.0b12 (64-bit)" when I check its version. Is it kept in parity (or slightly ahead) of Firefox? Do I have all of the new features and speed boosts like Quantum?
Congrats to the Firefox developers and team in general. I've stuck with Firefox as my primary browser since version 2 or 3, even as it became very frustratingly slow or resource inefficient compared to Chrome. Version 57 is tremendous.
I believe the React and Redux toolbars are exactly the same as Chrome's
I write software for the web so speed is secondary. I want to know: Does the inspector have better/more features than Chrome's Inspector? Does it have Redux and React Toolbars that are better than the Chrome ones?
Not for me. I can slam the cursor to the top edge of the screen and click on a background tab and it comes to focus just fine. This is of course with Firefox maximised. Am on Windows 10 just for info... perhaps the UI is slightly different under your OS...
I'm on Windows 10, too, so I assume the UI shouldn't be that far off.
The problem - see the link to Bugzilla I pasted - is supposedly related to the use of multiple displays (which involves different DPI settings). A small thing to be sure, but somewhat annoying, given that switching tabs is a fairly common action when using a web browser.
What's unpleasant is how long it takes to resolve it. From Bugzilla:
> This is a pretty annoying usability regression that will ship in 50. Will we be able to fix it for 51?
It's version 57 :)
As one of these people who switched away from Firefox to Chrome a long time ago, I was curious to give it another go now that it's revamped and all. I tend to do it very year or so, but something is always wrong.
Unfortunately, I quickly bumped into one simple deal-breaker (the same that discouraged me from using Opera once, if I recall). Firefox adds a few pixels of useless gap space above the tabs, meaning I always have to move the cursor slightly downwards when changing tabs.
Some googling revealed the bug was actually reported over a year ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1302168
As of now, it persists. Back to Chrome - see you again next year : )
It's great, until you go to stream a video. Then the fans kick on, the computer gets too hot to hold... Been this way forever, hope Firefox can address this at some point in a future release.
I use a dark theme on my Gnome desktop and in Firefox default form input elements follow the theme settings. The textarea I'm typing in here on HN is barely readable with this colors.
Have you tried youtube-dl(https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/)?
Not for a while. I was hoping for a browser addon.
No video download helper. Anyone got a good way of downloading video streams?
Where do I see the params of post requests in the developer tools? The parameters tab only shows url params. The old behaviour was to show both. Also, rendering a 50k json response is slow.
Pretty much all the extensions I need have been converted to WebExtensions at this point. DownTheMAll remains the sole holdout at this point, but I really only use it on one of my workstations.
Firefox AGAIN became my favorite. Allows me to control my privacy to the level I want. Great improvements. I believe there is more to come. YAY !!
Does anyone know how to make the newtab screen dark? All the user styles seem not to work anymore?
Take a look at Chrome Store Foxified: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-...
You can now find HNES for Firefox here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/hnes/
Here's hoping Hacker News Enhancement Suite becomes available soon.
Loading webpages is faster for me, but youtube has a lot of jank and videos freeze every few seconds. Is anyone else experiencing this, and if so, have you been able to fix it?
Just updated, arch linux, great experience.
Really really fast, the new dark theme is great.
Thanks to the developers.
Yes, it has always been different to Chrome (better IMHO).
On Windows 10, am I dreaming or the font smoothing looks a tiny bit different (from Google Chrome)?
I kinda like it, small text looks a bit stronger and smoother à-la OS X.
Yeah this isn't the same at all. For example I don't know how to add a custom search like:
When I add a search via right clicking the search box on that site it doesn't work.
Plus, the completion UX is great on Chrome, as soon as you press space or tab aftert he keyword it confirms with a special UX "Search Wikipediea" for example. Here, you get no feedback whatsoever... if I type sfs 188.8.131.52 is it going to google that, or is it actually going to search StopForumSpam for the IP ? I have no idea until I press enter. :(
Looks like you have to use "keywords for bookmarks"
I see, thanks. It seems the flexibility of entering a custom URL with the %s in it for the search term is lost.
1) Is it possible to change the shortcut for Private window to CTRL Shift N somehow like in Chrome? (instead of Ctrl Shift P). (I like that I could use that shortcut with my left hand (albeit with some nice thumb extension action).)
2) Any way to remove the bottom bar icons when the omni bar completion box shows? ... wait... How do I even edit search engines in Firefox? Like say, typing "yt (space) search term" to do a search on YouTube?
Will it be possible to get multi-row tabs back?
what concerns do you have regarding firefox’s security?
It's just that if security is a core priority, you'd expect to see this mentioned at least once. Based on what I read, the core priorities are speed, privacy, and convenience.
Compare this to Chrome, Safari, and Edge (tagline: "A fast and secure browser that's designed for Windows 10"): https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/features.html, https://www.apple.com/safari/, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/microsoft-edge.
Perhaps this is just a marketing or internal communication issue. Did somebody from security engineering have a seat at the table when the Firefox 57 marketing material was discussed?
For what it's worth, in most companies, marketing material is typically created by marketing people, with very limited interaction with engineering.
The message for Firefox 57 is performance. This doesn't mean that other stuff wasn't improved (case in point, better sandboxing), just that you can only tell one story at a time.
This release has our continued progress on sandboxing.
Fixed: "various security fixes"
(which is a link to details)
I'd feel a little better if the words "secure" or "security" appeared at least once in the marketing material: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/57.0/whatsnew/, https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/.
You can disable "toolkit.cosmeticAnimations.enabled" in about:config.
This affects more than just the pulse, but you'll probably actually be happy about that...
Anyone know how to disable the new loading animation? I find the "pulse" at the end of the animation very distracting.
Glad Tree Style Tabs ported over to 57...but kinda annoying I needed to uninstall/re-install add-on to get it working again
I've since switched to UnGoogled Chromium but might have to give this a shot just get TreeStyle Tabs back.
You probably want extended support release, not an old(ish) unsupported version:
It seems that the extended support is only going to last until mid 2018, so that is not what I want either. Wonder how long Waterfox is going to last.
So... is there an official guide for downgrading back to an older version? For those of us who lost functionality?
It works for me.
I keep two instances of Firefox (Release and Nighly) on my work computer (Windows 10), Nightly on my phone (Android) and a couple computers at home running Firefox ESR (Debian). No problem whatsoever, even with such an heterogenous setup.
Do you have any particular need that you think steers from the normal and that Chrome does currently serve? Because for my use case, everything works perfectly.
Don't have a particular need, I've just never Firefox's sync feature so I don't know how well it performs.
Yes. Been using it for years. The only gotcha is that adding a new devices loses the date of bookmarks. If you care about that, a workaround is to export and import them.
It is, but it does only work on Firefox (and GNOME Web), so if you want to sync with your phone, you'll have to use Firefox for Android (or iPhone) too. Which is nice as well, and should become a lot speedier in one of the next few releases too.
Yes, and you own the private key.
It's a very nice feature. But note that a consequence of this is that you'll loose data if you desync all devices. The private key is only transferred from device to device, without being stored in any server.
We actually fixed that failure mode three years ago with the release of Firefox Sync 1.5. The encryption key can now be re-derived from your password, so you can always recover your data as long as you remember your password. Even if you lose all of your devices.
Ah, good to know. Ideally it should also derive another key when logging into Sync, so it's never sent verbatim even through a secure channel.
We do :) The full details are at https://github.com/mozilla/fxa-auth-server/wiki/onepw-protoc..., but basically we derive two separate keys: one for authentication, that gets sent over the wire, and a completely different one for decrypting the sync key, which is not set over the wire. This means that even if you can observe the entire transaction, you still aren't able to derive the decryption key.
It's more or less:
let quickStretchPW = PBKDF2(email, password)
let authPW = HKDF('authPW', quickStretchPW)
let unwrapBkey = HKDF('unwrapBkey', quickStretchPW)
Perfect. So web login does that too, I guess. Therefore as good as before but easier to use. I'm happy I don't need to trust the server.
In my experience sync works really well.
The main thing keeping me tied to Chrome is how it syncs passwords, bookmarks and history. Is Firefox's sync as good?
Honestly, I'm having all kinds of problems. I've had to force quit a bunch of times. Some sites are 100% fine, but others cause CPU to 100% and doesn't come down. Feedly was the first I noticed, but it happened again on Yahoo Finance when I clicked on a stock quote. It happened when I went to the new tab settings and tried to change those. Some things are just really off.
Feedly performs like garbage with the new Firefox. 100% of CPU when clicking on the feed and doesn't go down.
WebExtension version of NoScript is going to be released today: https://hackademix.net/2017/11/14/double-noscript/
I've been using uMatrix:
Do anyone have NoScript working in 57r? The latest dev version from noscript.net doesn't want to install.
This could be many things, but if it is only when you download/save-as, from the top of my mind, that sounds like an Anti-Virus bug.
Where did you report it?
He's another person reporting . It happens even on safe mode, and I'm on Mac OSX without any AV installed. It started happening only a few releases ago, so not sure what has changed in the download manager. If I go back to, say, FF 45, then it's all happy.
I’m sure it’s nowhere near as simple/reproducible as you’re making it out to be. At any rate, I couldn’t reproduce it on my clean installation of Firefox 57, so there is that at the very least.
(Hint: if your post said “every time I try” instead of “every time you try,” I’m sure it would have been better received.)
Just tried that on my mac, worked fine?
Ever since version 50.0, Firefox consistently crashes / freezes every time I try to download a file / save-as an image. I've seen this reported by others as well. This makes Firefox very much unusable for me. Perhaps someone here will pay attention to that.
(fixed you try to I try to make it more about me ;)
The instructions at https://support.mozilla.org/kb/import-bookmarks-data-another... show how to import data from other browsers into Firefox.
Bookmarks and history both have import/export functions. I've used them, as well as Firefox Sync which preserves your privacy more than Chrome's.
There is an importer for at least bookmarks in the bookmark management window.
(it will access the other bookmarks directly)
Did anyone find an easy way to export bookmarks, history etc from chrome to firefox?
TIL Chrome is the worst browser on my Macbook atm.
Not too long ago it was the best.
Yes, even after disabling UI animations, the blue bar above tabs does not go away. Still looking for a way to disable this.
On first glance, it's got some pretty annoying loading animations for tabs.
Still miss a proper / user-friendly profiles management interface :(
The release disabled noscript. Do not update.
I'm just glad that uBlock₀ works in Firefox 57.0 for Android.
I updated to 57 from 56 and now FireFox won't launch :(.
What you think is better, this version or still google chrome?
This is exciting! Glad to see Google Chrome has competition.
Any recommendations for installing the ESR version on Linux?
What Firefox version is Webrender release scheduled for?
Are you on beta/nightly on Android? I feel it's much better now, but still not as good as Chrome.
The add-on support (uBlock) is absolutely crucial on mobile though so I could never go back to Chrome.
Scrolling is still laggy and jerky on android.
ctrl+shift+o > import and backup> import data from another browser.
you can import bookmark, history, passwords, everything.
Is there a way to import bookmarks from Chrome?
Even the scrolling on macOS is more smooth!
Congrats Firefox team on this release!
Wow, super responsive firefox now :)
You could try switching off WebGL rendering on maps, if that's still an option.
since 56.0 google maps went black on me and nothing seems to matter. really confused how something so simple just breaks; I am on OS X fwiw.
I end up swapping to safari for some functions and then using firefox for others. throw in 57 changes the look for no reason. I don't need dark tabs as default, updates should not change the user experience without permission
No more Private Tabs.
This is really fast.
Seems like vertical-tabs-reloaded no longer works.
Thank you Mozilla!
But NoScript will be released today:
End of the week.
Downvotes for this? WTF?
Currently no NoScript for Firefox 57.
And no gestures if you are on Mac or Linux.
its so good!
I'd say that the most sensible choice in the absence of any payment, considering FF sensibility and message, (i.e. according to me) DDG would be the most sensible default. (edit : clarify)
When has any proof ever been given that they’re any more privacy conscious than any other search engine?
They're not an ad agency, which is a good enough answer for me.
An ad agency has a big incentive to keep your user data to themselves, as that's their most valuable and competitive resource. Google and Facebook have a huge incentive to not leak information about their users; why would someone pay them if that data was available elsewhere?
DDG has every incentive to sell user data, given that they don't have their own ad network with which to target. How else would they make money off of it?
My point is that "they're not an ad agency" is not an argument that a company has some incentive to protect user privacy, and "they're an ad agency" is not an argument that a company is incentivized to sell user data.
What does incentivise them is that their entire marketing is based around the privacy messaging, and thus pretty much their entire userbase considers that their primary selling point. If it ever came out that they were handing over that data to whomever, they'd be gone in an instant.
Yeah, okay, DDG _might_ be lying about their privacy promises. They _might_ be tracking us all ways to Sunday the way Google and Facebook do. They _might_ have some seekrit, back-door ad sales department that nobody knows about and somehow they've managed to keep secret. Which, of course, is a great method for making ad sales.
Their privacy statement is pretty clear. That's a legally binding document and lying in that will get you pretty high fines even in the US.
Netflix was sued because they kept rental history on former customers.
Netflix revenue: $8,800,000,000
Lawsuit amount: $9,000,000 (or approx 0.1%)
Lawyers received: $2,100,000
Plaintiffs received: $30,000
You can't compare to revenue, that makes no sense.
Netflix's global net income in 2012 was apparently $17 million.
A $9 million fine is then over half of their annual income.
What sort of proof could they offer that would satisfy you? Honest question.
I believe that there will be an official announcement later today.
(I'm a Firefox dev)
The details of these deals aren't generally public, so I don't expect to see any official answers about this.
Well, it's particularly interesting when you tie these two facts together:
> According to documents filed with the U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC), Yahoo paid Mozilla $375 million in 2015, and is obligated for the same amount each year through 2019 under a five-year contract.
> Under terms of a contract that has been seen by Recode, whoever acquires Yahoo might have to pay Mozilla annual payments of $375 million through 2019 if it does not think the buyer is one it wants to work with and walks away.
I would really love to know what the Blood Alcohol Content of the Yahoo representatives that signed that contract was. Those terms seem absolutely braindead stupid.
I don’t know, but I bet Mozilla’s representatives’s were higher.
Idk, $375 million per annum through 2019 despite a declining user base, with the ability to leave the agreement at any time if Yahoo was acquired without incurring any penalty and where the new owner still has to pay out the contract without receiving anything in return, is a pretty goddamn good deal for Mozilla.
Mozilla's drinking is celebratory :)
That is not good news for the health and diversity of the Web which Mozilla is supposedly defending (unless this means less cash). How does that reconcile with their "Big Browser" campaigns?
They could instead switch to some underdogs to help them improve, but no... Google it is again, with the excuse of "It's better for the user". Sad day, Mozilla!
The underdogs don't have hundreds of millions of dollars to pay Mozilla. They do have to keep the lights on.
But, Mozilla does often do partnerships with smaller, local search engines in small markets.
From the announcement post :
> As part of our focus on user experience and performance in Firefox Quantum, Google will also become our new default search provider in the United States and Canada.
Does that mean the deal with Yahoo! has lapsed? And is there a new deal with Google, or no deal at all? (And what would be the revenue impact of that?)
Edit: Just saw an announcement for this as well , with no word about revenue. Guess that means that Yahoo! isn't paying anymore and that it means Google is the more sensible choice when nobody pays - though that's still reading between the lines.
brave browser all the way
Loaded with Cliqz trojan horse!
still brave browser is much better, its fast, blocks all trackers, ads, bitcoin, BAT integrated and much more
Absolutely no difference from chrome w.r.t memory usage.
Touch away: https://hackademix.net/2017/11/14/double-noscript/
+1 m using Chrome + uBO + uMatrix + uBlock Protector while NoScript 10 gets released.
Slightly confused here: what's the point of "using Chrome instead" when FF supports all of the addons you're using 'in the mean time' already? Just use FF with those addons until NoScript gets its official release in tandem with the official FF release?
Every major FF release always come with major bugs followed by a minor release fixing them a couple of days later, plus it comes with headaches discovering "Whats New" or for me "What should i disable next" or "What feature they delete", usually i tolerated those changes because i had NoScript by my side and now that NoScript disappear the line between Chrome and FF its pretty thin therefore meanwhile everything settle, m using an already tuned Chrome.
tl;dr FF without NoScript is basically Chrome, without NoScript Firefox is meaningless to me, it's the only thing that has kept me on Firefox.
I won't touch it until NoScript is available.
So... my Firefox just auto-upgraded to 57
* No multi-row tab bar and no way to get it (from Tab Mix Plus)
* Tabs are ugly square and no way to get them rounded
* Tabs are too small and no way to set minimal tab size
* Tabs are all the same color and no way to get them colored again
* No tab groups, the replacement is containers, but there is no way to move an existing tab into a container and no way to only see tabs for a particular container.
* Tab Session Manager seems to provide named sessions, although I have not tested it properly yet
I wouldn't say that the new FF is completely useless, but it has affected my browsing experience in a strongly negative way. I will give it a few days, but at this point Chrome might provide more features I actually want (never thought I would say that).
Edit: Reading other comments in this thread, I found a link to a set of CSS files that bring rounded tabs back (https://github.com/wilfredwee/photon-australis). Unfortunately it disables color coding container tabs which makes separating containers a pain. Well, guess you cannot have everything.