I've used Arch Linux (with Gnome 3, i3, dwm, Xfce, Cinnamon, Mate) for 6 years now and it has (or any of the DE's/WM's have) _never_ bugged out on me (many different laptops and desktops as well). I've only once had a destroyed installation and it was completely my fault. I would actually recommend Arch Linux as a great distribution for getting real work done. I know academic research groups that use it as OS for the boxes in their labs and they've never had problems with stability or things working out the box. Fedora is a great OS, but I just don't really see it having a big leg up on everybody else.
I no longer use Arch Linux due to breakage. In the six years you didn't have a problem when they switched to systemd and bugged all the config files to null? There have been several times when I pacman -Syu and didn't read the front page and there goes 15 minute to 3 hours.
I had several HUGE reports due and I ended up having to go on a different machine and git pull to get them done it time. I never recommend Arch Linux for anything beside personal hobby work.
Its all about the perception.
I've been running Arch on testing repos and with the linux-mainline kernel for years now and haven't experienced any major breakage at all.
I believe its down to the reputation of Arch Linux - people perceive it as a "bleeding-edge" and "breaking" OS and thus every even minor problem they experience is attributed to the OS and this perception is reinforced.
The same people might be scourging for hours on ubuntuforums because Ubuntu filled up their /boot partition with obsolete kernels and won't boot anymore. But its still perceived as "stable".
> I know academic research groups that use it as OS for the boxes in their labs and they've never had problems with stability or things working out the box.
They're been lucky then, but with Arch never say never. I hope more research boxes would run NixOS to ensure reproducible results.
That's fair. I know all these work for many systems and people. Maybe I have different tolerance threshold as to what constitutes "bugginess". Just happened yesterday again with latest suse and antergos on a ~3yo Thinkpad I wanted to freshen up. Just had to shout out my heartfelt props here =)
I have OpenSUSE on 6 machines and my milage has been SUSE works great out of the box. Every once in a while I'll have a issue with a Ethernet card, but that is usually a 5 minute fix.
I have to say that Linux seems to be the least frustrating installs I ever do. Apple and Windows still drive me nuts at times.
I'm also a happy OpenSUSE user, have been for almost 5 years now. You're totally right, they're installs are extremely quick and painless
Installing Fedora on my laptop with an nvidia graphics card was a frustrating experience, but I don't know if it's any better for other distros. The install process was insanely slow, but more frustratingly certain input fields would register a single keypress as anywhere from 1 to 30 keypresses.
I knew there was issues with nvidia cards, but wasn't ready for the keypress issue. I was still able to get a basic install done which let me drop to command line mode and change out the driver.
That's not a Fedora's fault though. The OS works perfectly with the open source drivers, both amdgpu and nouveau (which fully supports only older NVidia graphic cards, unfortunately).
Get the negativo repo. That's the most painless experience.
OpenSUSE gives you the option to use the blobs or the opensource drivers. I use the evil blobs which will never be officially supported on Fedora.
i3 with Fedora runs flawlessly for me out of the box:
dnf install i3 i3status dmenu i3lock
try rofi instead, it has dmenu mode (rofi -dmenu) and so much more
On what version of Fedora? Wayland has been enabled by default since F25 and i3wm does not work in Wayland... nor do the Nvidia drivers last I tried it...
There is Sway, which is i3 ported to Wayland.
You can still run an x session out of the box. Wayland is just the session it defaults to when you load GDM for the first time.
Try out Manjaro, especially the i3 edition
Major props to the Fedora project, really gotta get this off my chest as I had Yet Another "distro-hopping just still ain't worth it even in 2017" moment yesterday.
Somehow I have accumulated 4 laptops still-in-running-condition currently. Every rare once in a while, on a lazy weekend or when caught with a cold, I feel I should experimentally check out other distros and/or DE/WM combos than the singular one that has proven time and again for me to work-out-of-the-box, on any machine, after a swift painless install, without headaches hickups or troubles: Fedora with Gnome 3 (manually tweaked down to ultra-minimalism later on of course --- wouldn't mind i3 but guess what, it just freezes out-of-the-box, and the others seem to be abandonware).
Whether it's some some Arch or some Suse, Xfce DE or i3 or other WM.. it always either bugs out severely right in the live environment or during their install, or immediately after.
Great for tinkerers, but my reasoning always immediately jumps to "meh I have enough own code-bases to tinker with --- I might wanna tweak a properly running system but not trouble-shoot its setup" and so I just restore Fedora+Gnome3 and think, "ah well, maybe in another year from now".
We're talking bog-standard laptops here: an XPS, 2 older ThinkPads, a very budget Asus.
I'm quite grateful someone pointed me to Fedora when I got over my 3D gfx fascination phase and was more than ready to ditch Windows again "stat". Really stands on its own. (Granted, Ubuntu also seems to work well for many but I don't see any benefit over F now that I know about it =)
I don't understand SELinux and I have not found a document that explains for the average Joe like me what it is for and why doesn't my qemu-libvirt work when it is enabled, which is the default. It took me two nights to figure out that SELinux prevents qemu-libvirt to read certain ROM files that I need.
So after scratching my head, I just turned it off altogether. Other than that, Fedora has been really rock solid, great distribution for me at home. I'm still using Ubuntu on my laptop and desktop at work, though. Ubuntu has been really good as well.
>I don't understand SELinux and I have not found a document that explains for the average Joe like me
This could help: https://people.redhat.com/duffy/selinux/selinux-coloring-boo...
>It took me two nights to figure out that SELinux prevents qemu-libvirt to read certain ROM files that I need.
That is not too hard to imagine. Basically, the rationale is that if qemu/libvirt can read your ROM file, it can probably read other files too, some of which might be sensitive. So the defaults are conservative. Unless your rom file is in a standard location where it expects, it won't read even if the permissions are 644.
>So after scratching my head, I just turned it off altogether
selinux is annoying, but it is worth persisting. Nowadays, most things work well. I think things are bit more stable in RHEL/CentOS than Fedora by definition. So maybe you can try that if you are getting too many selinux related problems.
I am mostly on board with this, actually. The experience with machinectl and systemd-nspawn is also completely broken because there are no sane default SELinux rules for it.
However in my experience so far, the defaults do not get in your way during regular usage. You typically only encounter such issues when you're also in the position to fix them. And I think in general it's a great idea to have default deny policies for containers and VMs.
> So after scratching my head, I just turned it off altogether.
Please don't do this. It's not worth disabling an entire security system if you can just spend some time to figure out a command to make the system work for you. Fedora even has gui tools that notify you when you encounter an SELinux issue. See stopdisablingselinux.com.
> Please don't do this. It's not worth disabling an entire security system if you can just spend some time to figure out a command to make the system work for you. Fedora even has gui tools that notify you when you encounter an SELinux issue. See stopdisablingselinux.com.
Uh, SELinux is next to useless on a typical desktop as all the applications which really concern you are running in the unconfined domain.
What do you use Gnome Boxes for exactly.. is it for running a Windows instance?
I've switched to Fedora with version 26 (from Ubuntu and some dabbling with Manjaro) and really enjoy it. SELinux gave me a few headscratchers in the beginning but once you know how to deal with it it's great to have a distro that is both a great user experience and has some nice hardening/dont-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot features.
The best thing for me about this release is better support for shared folders in Gnome Boxes (Ubuntu 17.10 and other distros with Gnome 3.26 have this too). This was the only thing holding Boxes back from firmly beating VirtualBox for desktop virtualization. Boxes is already a better user experience and uses superior libvirt/KVM tech for virtualization, but the shared folders UX was not up to par with VirtualBox before now.
What did you dislike about Arch? I made the opposite move years ago: I went from Fedora to Arch, and it was possibly the best choice I could have made.
I switched from Arch to F25 and stuck through F26 as well. It was nice going into something that "just worked" but so many little issues I have with GNOME are starting to make rethink. Toast that doesn't autohide and oh you updated yesterday but too bad here's a toast to remind you to update today too! Here have toast about your battery! Toast about your GNOME extensions! Toast for everyone! And then disabling night light until tomorrow literally means the calendar day, not the next night light cycle, so if you are watching movies late and 12am hits then your night light turns back on. Wtf.
I should switch back to i3 or sway. There are just too many inconsistencies and little details or issues missed in GNOME that I feel should never make it into a release. Hopefully I don't break anything. I guess that's the advantage of Arch, I know what I'm getting into and there are decent docs for those kinds of changes.
I used Fedora for over a year until very recently and loved it for the same reason: rock solid. However, I recently made the move to Manjaro, an Arch variant with stable releases. Manjaro's definition of stable is not as stable as Fedora's, but the big draw to Arch for me is the AUR, which I think is even better than the Ubuntu's PPA system. COPR just doesn't have the breadth of software as the other two. If Fedora could expand their community to get more software available through COPR, or if they set up something similar to AUR, I would be back in a heartbeat.
>I wish other popular distros would do the same.
You don't have to wish. There are distros they're doing same. Won't name them, because names would make look biased.
I highly recommend Fedora 27. I have been using beta for the last few weeks. I switched from Arch and I am very happy with how well everything works and how stable it is.
Fedora team has a release schedule for every release. However, they don't release until they are sure everything works as expected (27 was delayed by a few weeks). That really makes the stable release rock solid. I wish other popular distros would do the same.
Congrats to all involved, I’m especially proud that the choice was made to delay the release in favour of quality. To me that says so much about the motives and dedication of the people working on the project(s). Compare this say to Debian when they released Jessie - it wasn’t at all ready for release, missing packages, a broken SELinux ecosystem and some of these they classed as release critical - apparently not when it came down to it.
Anyway, fantastic work all - a fantastic distro that I believe in many ways sets an example for others (especially security wise). I look forward to all the hard work making its way into RHEL & CentOS in time to come.
This is exactly what I'm waiting for. The moment it's stable in a reasonable distro, I'm trying it on one of the fancy 8th gen Intel laptops with it and if everything works as expected, I'll get my first non-Mac computer in over half a decade.
It exists in Gnome 3.26 (IE Fedora 27) with an experimental flag. It works well, with the exception of some blurry text in random apps.
The biggest change I'm waiting for is fractional scaling support for Gnome under Weyland. This is achievable under X using some combination of integer scaling and xrandr, and Ubuntu 17.04 had support for it out of the box via the gui (not sure of the underlying implementation).
Fortunately this change is expected in Gnome 3.28, which is only a few months away. Having that will mean a lot to those of us using HiDPI displays that aren't quite pixel dense enough for 200% scaling.
> I experienced those crashes few times out of the blue
Gnome Shell is supposed to show case Wayland. Yet apparently it got fundamental architecture wrong to the point of Fedora documentation issuing an apology. From Common Fedora bugs page :
> Otherwise, we advise that you may wish to consider using the GNOME on Xorg session (see above) rather than the default Wayland session; this should at least prevent the crashes from ending your GNOME session when they occur. We do apologize for any inconvenience and/or lost data caused by such Shell crashes.
In Fedora 26 I experienced those crashes few times out of the blue. It is annoying to say the least.
 - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F27_bugs#Wayland_issue...
The big change will come with Gnome 3.28 - real fractional scaling. You can test early version of it on 3.26  (experimental).
Can you verify that the resolution picker is no longer ordered by total number of pixels? How anyone ever thought this was a good idea? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7p7ellIIAAbSHX.png:large
Here are the instructions how to upgrade using dnf if you have Fedora 21 or newer:
Looking forward to the new display settings in Gnome 3.26
Pick whatever the most competent and helpful Linux-user around you uses...
The distos are pretty much all the same, just different in the details.
Unfortunately, all the "distro picker" resources I have seen so far are of questionable quality. They either are too opinionated (use my favorite distro) or not opinionated enough (listing super niche distros for no good reason).
That said, I agree with what jononor said. Using something similar that what your most helpful Linux-using friend uses trumps picking the most ideal distro and as long as you pick something relatively mainstream there isn't going to be that big of a difference anyway. In my experience, the choice of desktop environment (GNOME / KDE / MATE / etc) is actually more impactful than the choice of distro.
They might benefit from checking out https://wiki.installgentoo.com/index.php/Babbies_First_Linux - includes a nice though two years out-of-date flowchart from /g/.
That might just be the most controversial post on the internet, if indeed it exists.
Is there a curated up-to-date list of reasons somewhere on the internet that explains to a naive end-user why he/she should pick a given distro?
[keith@localhost ~]$ locate mp3 | grep lib
Most major Linux distros have become quite similar and the differences are mostly superficial.
It shocking to see the huge number of reports here complaining of breakages compelling preference to Fedora since most provide a near similar out of the box experience for both desktops and servers.
Great to see!
After spending a week trying to get various OS's to play nice on my PC, everything "just worked" in fedora. And worked well - apple polish level experience. Now, i use it over debian as my main dev VM.
It's a great OS for getting out of the way and letting you get stuff done.
I also left Ubuntu recently, so I'm a bit of a Fedora noob but the KDE spin has been amazing, not sure if that's got more to do with KDE or Fedora though.
The partition manager has an annoying bug hen opening in 26 so I'm hoping that got fixed. And I think the new Firefox will come packaged or at least part of a normal update, so good times.
HP Pavilion and it works completely fine.
Fedora 26 came out a bit late so Fedora 27 had a shorter release cycle to compensate.
I'm mostly still using Ubuntu, but I did install a Fedora 26 box to see how well it works these days. I've been pretty happy with the results. Ubuntu is just a little too conservative with their package management sometimes and Fedora seems like a decent answer to that problem.
Not the most exciting release, but boy am I glad Fedora exists. I switched over from Ubuntu around this time last year and it's been so much better, more stable, better packaging, more up-to-date packages by default. A really great OS. And on my Thinkpad it runs flawlessly.
Fedora has been by far the most perfect out-of-the-box experience for my thinkpad machines: t460s and e430. It is stable, lightweight and it doesn't get in the way. I mainly use for python and go development, docker and browsing.
This is supported by GNOME Shell 3.26 which I'm currently running under Ubuntu 17.10.
What's the HiDPI situation (with KDE or Gnome) today?
Last I checked, I could drive an HiDPI display without problems, but not the LoDPI display by its side, because you couldn't do independent scaling of the displays.
Has that changed, yet?
May be https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=788931 (half a dozen crashes a day here too). Regarding "No idea where the fault is", check journalctl, the crash should be logged here.
Gnome-shell keeps crashing due to a libgobject segfault. About 4 times a day. No idea where the fault is, and even more amusingly, my other laptop works fine on the same settings.
Price of complex software, I suppose.
I hope so. On Fedora 26 I still have to drop back to X11 in order to get my XPS13 to properly detect my external monitor (DisplayPort), Wayland will only allow the default lowest resolution with no option to increase it, which is very sad on a 28" 4K screen :-(
Will give Fedora 27 a go this evening and see...
Wayland is the default display server since Fedora 25.
Wayland out of the box?
I’m running into issues with the upgrade from 26. “Offline” kept giving me an error about distro-sync being and invalid argument. Online mostly worked but I stepped away and came back to the terminal window just being gone. Now I’m at this stuck spot where the fedora-upgrade says “Can’t upgrade from version 2627” which I assume is some in between state?
Didn’t have any issues with the 25-26 upgrade fwiw.
For those of you with older macbooks, here's how you can try fedora.
It's pretty good supported with Firefox. The flash package is part of rpmfusion-nonfree: https://rpmfusion.org/Configuration
I'm using it to play videos on some sites that still use Flash.
Fedora doesn't include any nonfree or patent encumbered software by default (for legal and project policy reasons). But if you really need flash you should be able to get it from 3rd party repositories.
Is Adobe's Flash product supported? I use a Flash-based tool for Remote Desktop (400+ systems under management) and difficulties getting Flash to work caused me to give up on Fedora 26. Mint has Flash support from the start...
Try `free -m`
Linux tries to use as much memory as possible for buffers/cache. When a program requires more memory the cache is freed up automatically to be used.
Right now my laptop is using 2G and has 1242 "free" but as you can see the buffer's cache count toward available memory.
total used free shared buff/cache available
Mem: 7678 2089 1242 307 4346 4963
Swap: 3711 0 3711
How is memory consumption on Fedora 27? I am using Fedora 24. When I check with 'free' after it boots, slightly more than half a GB is used on my laptop. In any case, thanks to the team for a very fine open source OS from RedHat.
Fedy looks interesting, but I couldn't figure out how it works.
Is it like another package manager, or can I use dnf to manage/update the packages it installs?
If you are planning to try Fedora, here is my recommendation to get an astonishingly great set up in no time:
- Do a fresh install
- Use Fedy  install with a single click pretty much any development IDE you may need plus other must-have tools (Skype, Dropbox, VirtualBox, TeamViewer, etc...)
- Install the "dash to panel" Gnome extension 
- Use Fedy to install Numix or Arch as themes and "pimp" your GUI ;)
Here is how my desktop looks with the described set up: https://snag.gy/F6SM4L.jpg
It seems kinda odd to me, that it's released as an update today.
I download the image, install it in a VM, and there are ~289 package updates on a fresh install.
Yes, it is.
EDIT: And CSD works! Instructions to enable it are in a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rz_mPVwhDg (I recommend to mute sounds).
Is Firefox 57 already out in Fedora 27, by any chance?
On Gnome with Wayland, it works, but only with integer multiples. Gnome 3.28 (which will ship in F28) will have full fractional scaling support if you need that.
How's the HIDPI support in Fedora these days? That's the #1 deal breaker for me and every single Linux distro.
It will not.
The location of the F27 bits are separate from the F26 bits, so you'll have to manually add a new remote and then rebase to that new remote.
$ sudo ostree remote add --set=gpgkeypath=/etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-27-primary fedora-atomic-27 https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/atomic/27
$ sudo rpm-ostree rebase fedora-atomic-27:fedora/27/x86_64/atomic-host
Does anyone know if the Atomic Host will auto update from 26->27 or is it a manual process?